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Original poster

To think this attitude to names like Fanny in old books is silly?

210 replies

Carla786 · 28/04/2026 12:49

I've seen posts here agreeing with the new Enid Blyton editions that changed Fanny to Franny and Dick to Rick, some even saying she must have meant it as a double entendre.

 Just seems silly & narrow-minded to me. Not everything was always meant as a double entendre. Should Fanny Price in Mansfield Park also be changed? Or other characters called names that mean different things now?

I remember my mother passed down a minor Blyton book with a kitten called Bimbo in. Was that Blyton being rude, or just due to the fact that Bimbo was slang for 'kid' then?

OP posts:
Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 17:00

SerafinasGoose · 28/04/2026 12:57

I snorted at this.

Fanny wasn't that uncommon a diminutive until relatively recently, and it's still quite a popular name in France where it doesn't have the same connotations. Fanny Ardent is a brilliant French actress who is amongst my favourites!

But I must confess the frequent recurrence of the names Dick and Fanny in the same context in Blyton is quite entertaining. I'm not sure ole Enid didn't have unsuspected depths to her ...

What's less certain is why her characters' names are constantly being altered, but Arthur Ransome's Titty is apparently still a-okay.

Queer (or should that be 'peculiar') minds some people have!

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On Blyton : apparently she wasn't particularly naive in her private life. She played tennis nude and had affairs with both men and women.

But that doesn't mean her books have sexual double entendres, any more than Arthur Ransome's communist involvement means it must be noticeable in Swallows and Amazons

BTW I like Fanny Ardant too.

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nevernotmaybe · 28/04/2026 16:57

Carla786 · 28/04/2026 13:08

Sorry the bit about Bimbo was meant to be rhetorical. Bimbo was originally slang for 'kid' due to travelling over from Italy (bambino for child). I'm doubtful she was that aware of the later slang connotations. I thunk they became common in the 50s US but need to check.

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It was known by 1919 as a a man who is stupid/inept, and by 1920 for an attractive woman who is unintelligent and frivolous. In the US at least. It didnt fully set in as the main usage until the 80s though.

Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:56

ServietteUnion · 28/04/2026 16:40

Are Enid Blyton's 5 Find-Outers & Dog books still in print? Those had a character called Fatty, which is probably a no-no nowadays too.

Swallows and Amazons had a Roger as well as a Titty iirc. Proper racy stuff.

It's all stupid imo. Things are of their age. Read them or don't read them, but don't sanitise them, especially for such stupid reasons. Little Black Sambo or Gollies are another matter obviously. Can't believe we collected tokens for Golly badges from the jam jars back in the day. Not even that long ago really.

Re Roger, I had to chuckle at this spoof post under the Guardian article :
'Ransome was obsessed with sexually charged names. Titty, Roger, Nancy. Peggy and in later books, Dick. Even the kitten was called Sinbad.'

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:54

ServietteUnion · 28/04/2026 16:40

Are Enid Blyton's 5 Find-Outers & Dog books still in print? Those had a character called Fatty, which is probably a no-no nowadays too.

Swallows and Amazons had a Roger as well as a Titty iirc. Proper racy stuff.

It's all stupid imo. Things are of their age. Read them or don't read them, but don't sanitise them, especially for such stupid reasons. Little Black Sambo or Gollies are another matter obviously. Can't believe we collected tokens for Golly badges from the jam jars back in the day. Not even that long ago really.

Yes they are! I think....At least my mother read me modern editions. And I loved them. I think a lot of her lesser known ones are just as good..
Fatty's name was unfortunate, he was a good character. it rightfully wasn't changed though.

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:51

TerracottaBowl · 28/04/2026 16:43

But cousin marriage just wasn't an issue then. Not only was it legal but it was perfectly socially acceptable. If it hadn't been Austen wouldn't have featured it, not just in Mansfield Park, but in other novels too.

Mr Darcy doesn't end up marrying his first cousin Lady Anne de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice, but her mother pushes for it, and no one thinks there is anything wrong with it in principle. Henrietta Musgrove marries her first cousin Charles Hayter in Persuasion.

JA's own brother Henry married their first cousin Eliza de Feuillide.

(Lots of more distant cousin proposals and courtships, too -- Mr Collins is a cousin of the Bennet girls and proposes marriage to Elizabeth, and Mr Elliot in Persuasion is Anne's cousin.)
.

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That's a good point : and I see the irony in criticising when it was seen very differently then. At least Darcy didn't end up marrying Anne, he clearly didn't seem keen.

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TerracottaBowl · 28/04/2026 16:43

Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:25

Yes I can't stand Edmund. It's also creepy that he & Fanny are first cousins, it's even noted at the start that growing up 'like brothers and sisters' should make romance impossible.
'Emma' is arguably worrying too, when Mr Knightley claims to have been in love with her since she was 13 'at least'!
Agree on Persuasion & Wentworth.

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But cousin marriage just wasn't an issue then. Not only was it legal but it was perfectly socially acceptable. If it hadn't been Austen wouldn't have featured it, not just in Mansfield Park, but in other novels too.

Mr Darcy doesn't end up marrying his first cousin Lady Anne de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice, but her mother pushes for it, and no one thinks there is anything wrong with it in principle. Henrietta Musgrove marries her first cousin Charles Hayter in Persuasion.

JA's own brother Henry married their first cousin Eliza de Feuillide.

(Lots of more distant cousin proposals and courtships, too -- Mr Collins is a cousin of the Bennet girls and proposes marriage to Elizabeth, and Mr Elliot in Persuasion is Anne's cousin.)
.

ServietteUnion · 28/04/2026 16:40

Are Enid Blyton's 5 Find-Outers & Dog books still in print? Those had a character called Fatty, which is probably a no-no nowadays too.

Swallows and Amazons had a Roger as well as a Titty iirc. Proper racy stuff.

It's all stupid imo. Things are of their age. Read them or don't read them, but don't sanitise them, especially for such stupid reasons. Little Black Sambo or Gollies are another matter obviously. Can't believe we collected tokens for Golly badges from the jam jars back in the day. Not even that long ago really.

AgnesMcDoo · 28/04/2026 16:39

It is ridiculous I agree

Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:38

I suppose what I'm wondering is when and why it became taboo? I suppose post-60s changes where sexual double entendres became more prominent?

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:36

Another old chestnut I've seen in MN discussions of the name is that Fanny Hill I proof it was used in the slang sense back in the 18th century. But there doesn't seem to be proof of this.

https://grammarphobia.com/blog/2017/02/fanny.html

Apparently there's a 'debate in academia' over whether Austen meant the name in that sense? I mean, come on!

The Grammarphobia Blog: Jane Austen’s “Fanny”

Did Jane Austen winkingly use the name "Fanny Price" in Mansfield Park?

https://grammarphobia.com/blog/2017/02/fanny.html

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Scorchio84 · 28/04/2026 16:30

HelenaWilson · 28/04/2026 15:56

There was an Irish chat show host and presenter called Gay Byrne (really Gabriel) who died in 2019.

Yep & he was affectionately called "Gaybo" 😆My auntie loved him

Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:30

JudgeJ · 28/04/2026 15:44

That was the one that occurred to me, if people can't cope with old names it says more about them! Will the same pathetic attitude be applied to Karen in future, because someone decided it had an alternative meaning?

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This!

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:29

Hermyknee · 28/04/2026 15:40

I have loads of Fannys in my family. All seemed to marry Albert’s too. We’ve Grand old Fanny (she was very grand), Little Fanny, Bad Fanny (she got cautioned for going out and forgetting to shut her curtains during a blackout whilst the embers burnt in the fireplace).

I think it’s a nice sounding name. If I couldn’t say Fanny I wouldn’t be able to talk about my relatives.

However, the Americans saying fannypack rather than bumbag gives me the ick.

Interesting, esp Bad Fanny!
Fannypack sounds odd to me too..I suppose we have equivalents they feel the same about...

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:26

Pieceofpurplesky · 28/04/2026 16:25

I had an Aunty Fanny.
I think it's OK to change the names as language evolves. Hearing kids snigger over Master Bates in Oliver Twist still has me trying to keep a straight face!

Language evolves but does that mean we change older books & names? By that logic we'd change classic authors' books every time they use words we no longer use or use for a different thing

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:25

HelenaWilson · 28/04/2026 15:48

I love Mansfield Park, but it would be a brave exam board that proposed it for GCSE, or even, alas, A-level.

I did do it for A Level, and yes we did think Fanny was a wet lettuce and Edmund was a bore and a prig.

But we also read Persuasion, which I love. Forget your Darcys, Wentworth all the way.

I think the Dicks in fiction do get off more lightly. Dick Hannay, Dick Bettany (in the Chalet School books) and Dick Callum don't get messed with.

Yes I can't stand Edmund. It's also creepy that he & Fanny are first cousins, it's even noted at the start that growing up 'like brothers and sisters' should make romance impossible.
'Emma' is arguably worrying too, when Mr Knightley claims to have been in love with her since she was 13 'at least'!
Agree on Persuasion & Wentworth.

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Pieceofpurplesky · 28/04/2026 16:25

I had an Aunty Fanny.
I think it's OK to change the names as language evolves. Hearing kids snigger over Master Bates in Oliver Twist still has me trying to keep a straight face!

Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:19

Smidge001 · 28/04/2026 16:18

I worked with a Gaye and she woukdnt be more than very early 50s now. No one batted an eyelid after they'd seen the name written down and first been introduced. We also had a Dick in the office too funnily enough! Again, I don't remember any jokes about it - i think you just get used to names once you know the person and it just becomes perfectly normal.

Yes, that's how it should be with sensible people..

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Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:18

REP22 · 28/04/2026 16:05

Also a moment's silence for anyone called John Thomas.

That's a Mansfield Park reference too - Mary Crawford, when praising Edmund's name, says that a Mr. Edmund is better than a Mr. John or a Mr. Thomas. And this is on the back of her having earlier mentioned her uncle the admiral's naval mates at dinner, and saying that she saw plenty of "rears" and "vices" - and she hopes Edmund and Fanny didn't suspect her of making a pun.

Jane Austen had a wonderfully naughty streak in her at times.

Edited

Yes, that shows Austen was hardly naive. People forget she grew up in the bawdy Georgian era.

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Smidge001 · 28/04/2026 16:18

I worked with a Gaye and she woukdnt be more than very early 50s now. No one batted an eyelid after they'd seen the name written down and first been introduced. We also had a Dick in the office too funnily enough! Again, I don't remember any jokes about it - i think you just get used to names once you know the person and it just becomes perfectly normal.

Original poster
Carla786 · 28/04/2026 16:17

SerafinasGoose · 28/04/2026 15:40

I liked Fanny Price. I know she's controversial and seen by some as a bit of a damp lettuce. But when the chips were down she was resolute in her morals: despite her Uncle's displeasure she was not about to marry Crawford!

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Yes, I like her too. It's quite a brave choice when she comes from a much poorer background and relies on marriage.

A lot of people criticise Austen for being blind to non-mc people but if you read carefully quite a few characters are in in-between positions (Harriet Smith is another).

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REP22 · 28/04/2026 16:05

Also a moment's silence for anyone called John Thomas.

That's a Mansfield Park reference too - Mary Crawford, when praising Edmund's name, says that a Mr. Edmund is better than a Mr. John or a Mr. Thomas. And this is on the back of her having earlier mentioned her uncle the admiral's naval mates at dinner, and saying that she saw plenty of "rears" and "vices" - and she hopes Edmund and Fanny didn't suspect her of making a pun.

Jane Austen had a wonderfully naughty streak in her at times.

HelenaWilson · 28/04/2026 15:56

There was an Irish chat show host and presenter called Gay Byrne (really Gabriel) who died in 2019.

TheFarmatLittletown · 28/04/2026 15:50

I actually know of a Gaye. I don't know her personally, godmother of my friend's sister, who gets a mention often. She can't be that old either given the details I do know of her. Early 60s at most.

JudgeJ · 28/04/2026 15:49

MeanwhileinGilead · 28/04/2026 13:44

In order to maintain consistency Peter, Willy, Rod, Lance, Dirk, John, Roger, Woody, Randy, Mickey, Buddy, Cherry, Tulip, Minnie, Muffy, and Mouse are all going to have to go too. Also the surnames Johnson, Wang, Hickey, Weiner, Bone, Bean, and anything including "cock".

(Speaking of which, I can't believe someone posted this on Ed Balls Day!)

Does anyone still enjoy Cockburns?

HelenaWilson · 28/04/2026 15:48

I love Mansfield Park, but it would be a brave exam board that proposed it for GCSE, or even, alas, A-level.

I did do it for A Level, and yes we did think Fanny was a wet lettuce and Edmund was a bore and a prig.

But we also read Persuasion, which I love. Forget your Darcys, Wentworth all the way.

I think the Dicks in fiction do get off more lightly. Dick Hannay, Dick Bettany (in the Chalet School books) and Dick Callum don't get messed with.