To think MPs shouldn’t be drinking while at work?

Oil and Gas industry quite a few firings after Xmas dos particularly with free bars.

I’m not campaigning for anything. This is just a discussion - I’m not trying to ban anything. I’ve simply said that I don’t think it’s appropriate to drink alcohol while at work.

You are free to disagree with me, as are others.

Im not suggesting a ban on socialising with colleagues or drinking alcohol with colleagues. My opinion is that there should be some boundaries and that drinking while working is not appropriate in the vast majority of situations. Again, feel free to disagree.

I don’t think it really matter who made the complaints discussed in that report. It says there were 50 complaints which resulted in 69 cases being opened because some involved people. Of those 69, 44 were taken forward and 50% were upheld. The report was clear that alcohol contributed to claims regarding bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct. It doesn’t paint a positive picture of the culture does it?
Im not saying that means alcohol should be banned but if it were my organisation I’d be looking at reviewing the situation to ensure all staff felt safe at work.

As for your question about teachers etc (im a university academic so similar) obviously I can’t stop people drinking at home and then working BUT I don’t expect staff to work in the evenings anyway and there would be issues if drinking was impacting the work they were doing. And drinking AT work would be a disciplinary issue.

Sorry 2-3 of was meant to be 2-3 of those taken to full investigation, probably double that of investigations started.

It's unacceptable. I also strongly believe they shouldn't get a subsidised bar - subsidised by the taxpayer.

I work across both public and private sector and a drink after work with colleagues or a lunchtime drink on Friday in many places.

Its certainly true that the widespread heavy drinking culture in both private and public sectors back in the 80s/90s has thankfully disappeared but an afterwork or Friday lunchtime drink with colleagues is still very common.

No, not particularly. I'm more interested in environmental protection and preventing the wholesale destruction of ecosystems through the use of pesticides, not whether a random MP has smelly breath, whether through wine or garlic.

So forgive me if I don’t read every page in detail - I assumed that if you are quoting figures you could point out specifically where they came from.

From that report I see "Between April 2023 and March 2025, alcohol was a factor in almost one out of every five complaints investigated"

So I assume from that they are talking about the 42 complaints investigated yes? So in the two year period they believe alcohol was a factor in 2-3 of them. And that is complaints investigated, not complaints upheld, with alcohol “believed” to be “a” factor. It also doesn’t distinguish between complaints about MPs and staff. We have no idea if that 2-3 complaints were MPs.

This is not data which justifies a general ban on MPs having alcohol in a social setting which doubles as the work building.

I also work for a much larger organisation and I proposed all staff should be banned from alcohol when working out of town or late nights I’d be rightly laughed at. If I tried to ban staff from having a drink with colleagues after work I’d be rightly laughed at.

You are also completely ignoring the fact that for MPs and other staff at security risk the House isn’t just a workplace, its also a safe place for them to socialise and meet up with friends and colleagues.

So to answer my question back to you - will you be campaigning to ban teachers and other professionals from having a beer or glass of wine with dinner if they are then going to answer emails, mark work, prep for the next day at home?

As I've said, it's still very much a thing in the public sector. And it's fine.

Yup, great fun working in media during the 90s, but surely not a thing anymore - particularly in the public sector. It needs to stop in HoP.

icgs-annual-report-2024-25.pdf

Read the report yourself
I work for an organisation which a much higher number of staff and we would consider ourselves to have a serious issue if we were getting that many complaints relating to bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct.

You haven’t provided the evidence or the numbers.

How many of those complaints are upheld?
How many relate to MPs (as opposed to the several thousand members of staff)?
How many cases were upheld and involve MPs drinking to excess during their core working day, as as opposed to having wine or a beer with dinner after they have finished or whilst they are waiting for the last division bell?

You realise that MPs are not sitting in the evening puzzling over which way to vote - they are shepherded through along party lines. Many will be there just to have their dinner and chat with colleagues whilst working away from home, as will some of the regular staff.

You are also merging two issues.

Should the tax payer run building operate food and drink outlets for staff, who for security reasons cannot just “nip in and out to Pret” or the local Italian in the evening. Yes I think they should - the main users are the general staff who often work late for the members and the house.

Should MPs and HoC staff be barred from alcohol in a way that most professionals are not.

Would you ban teachers from having a glass of wine or beer with dinner before going on to do a few hours marking and prep?

If there are multiple complaints related to bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct and an independent report states that alcohol plays a significant role in this behaviour do you not think that it is at least worth a review? The report said that every complaint that involved alcohol was upheld.
That suggests there is an issue that needs addressing. That doesn't automatically mean banning it completely before you accuse me of being either an alcoholic or a puritan (not sure how I can be both though tbh!)

You asked for evidence about the negative impact of drinking in parliament - is bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct not serious enough for you?

I don't think that is the culture that needs changing. And even if accept your premise, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Look at the COVID restrictions. Burning down the house because there is a wasp in the bathroom is not a sane reaction to any problem.

That's not how you change organisational culture.

When I started my first role in a public sector organisation out of uni one of my older colleagues told me that they had an unwritten rule not to ask the senior manager any important questions after lunchtime as chances are he’d be half cut. This was around 15 years ago and the public sector organisation was the NHS. It’s absolutely disgusting behaviour and always makes me laugh when there is the usual guff about the current generation of workers not being as productive or willing to put in as many hours as previous generations.

In a more recent role my then team leader would spout on about how everyone of my generation “just” did their 9 to 5 and nobody stayed to put in extra time for the organisation and how it was so different to when she started her career and how she was always the last one out the door. She didn’t like it when I pointed out that might have had something to do with the fact she went for at least a ten-minute fag break every hour and regularly wandered the building chit chatting while most of us logged on, worked solidly and left on time.

These business practices need to die a death.

Maybe just no drinking on the tills?

No. I think individuals are responsible for their own behaviour and if they fall short, appropriate action should be taken.

Oh and I haven't said ban it. I've just said I don't think it's appropriate.
It's not like I'm actively campaigning to have it banned. I'm just joining in a discussion

They taped off children's clothing aisles during COVID, I don't think Westminster should look to the Welsh assembly in any shape or form.

We're a society that is effectively based on laws, rules and cultural norms that says do what you want, until it starts affecting others. That is how I want it to stay.

You don't think a culture where alcohol continues to play a significant part in the bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct towards staff falls into the category of affecting others?

This report would suggest it's not just about individuals but that it's an organisational culture issue. A culture where alcohol plays a significant part in bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct.

If I received a report like that about my organisation or department I'd have a responsibility to at least look at why alcohol was playing such an significant role in this type of behaviour. Not defend the right to drink at all costs or call people puritanical for discussing it.

I don't have difficulty with differing opinions, but I do have difficulty with people who's first instinct is to suck all the joy out of life by banning things.

We're a society that is effectively based on laws, rules and cultural norms that says do what you want, until it starts affecting others. That is how I want it to stay.