Do people genuinely believe 'you should get her/him sectioned' as some sort of option?

@OtterlyAstounding exactly yes! Well said. It's just ease of language to explain the process isn't it, not meant to be taken literally. Honestly I can't be doing with this policing of language constantly when people are not trying to cause offence and it's not hard to understand what they mean.

With zero context, as it is literally impossible for people to have their family members detained without going through the proper processes, it's quite obvious they mean "I triggered the process happening," as it can't mean anything else.

I don't think people believe that a family member can sign a piece of paper and have someone dragged off at their say-so - that's not even what's shown (inaccurately) in media, where there are always mental health professionals involved, making the decisions.

I'm not sure what you think the danger is in people using that shorthand to refer to an experience they had?

Although again, I agree that there is value in pointing out that flagging up concerns - aka 'trying to get someone sectioned' - is a very difficult process, and educating people on what it actually entails and how high the threshold is, is also valuable. I imagine most people are very ill-informed on those kinds of things.

Several posters have said "I got my family member sectioned" on this thread with zero context.

There is a very recent poster who is adamant that family members can section.

Combine the two and you have a problem.

Either way, it's lazy, sloppy and downright incorrect use of language

And never overestimate general intelligence/knowledge.

This is how I understand it.

If someone says, "I got my sister sectioned" I understand them to mean that they were the one who reached out to the appropriate authorities with serious concerns about their sister's mental health and safety, which meant they thought she needed in-patient care, and that triggered a process that resulted in her eventually being sectioned after a proper assessment.

I would never think they literally signed the forms and had their sister detained on their say-so.

It's a very simple, concise way of communicating a difficult experience, and while accurate language is always good, when people are discussing things in a more casual format I don't think they can be expected to be perfectly up to date with the most appropriate terminology.

It seems fair to point out the issues around attempting to seek to have a family member or friend detained for their own safety or others, due to mental health issues - like the fact that it's not that simple, it's not easy, the threshold to reach can be very high, there aren't enough beds, etc etc.

But it seems a little pernickety to ask, "Oh, are you an AMHP? Did you personally section them?" when it's abundantly clear the person just means, "I'm the one who contacted the appropriate people to say I thought my family member needed to be sectioned."

As for "who else will do it?", that would be under the remit of an AMHP and 2 doctors with at least one being S12 approved.

https://oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/support-advice/getting-help/your-rights/?highlight=section+3+nature+or+degree&utm_source=chatgpt.com

No, @Blahblahblahabla . You are wrong.

Family members cannot section. Full stop.

https://nearestrelativeresources.bristol.ac.uk/about-the-mental-health-system/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

@Firefly1987 , this (originally very good) thread has been massively derailed.

I'm one of the "that's stigmatising" crowd that you mention. Because, like it or not, they're is a stigma surrounding SMI. I've lost friends because of it. It sucks. I do everything I can to hide my illness.

And I'm not clear what the topic of this "genuine discussion" would be - some posts, and I don't mean yours necessarily- have been badly written.

What is it specifically that you want to discuss? I agree, a separate thread is a good idea.

Speaking more broadly, could we please be considerate and respectful towards each other? And ideally be clear about your comment or question when posting.

And please don't forget that when you post there are real people living with debilitating SMI reading your comments behind the screens.

Of course you can get a family member sectioned. Who else is going to do it?

Thank you. Apparently I'm a bigot for not putting a disclaimer of "most people with schizophrenia aren't murderers" 🙄as if I said they were...some people will look for offence anywhere.

I'm sure the "that's stigmatising" crowd will successfully manage to shut anyone up who actually wants to have a genuine discussion about this subject. I hope someone does start another thread I think it'd be really interesting and enlightening.

@Blahblahblahabla , can you unpick that please, I didn't understand what you wrote?

What is a nonsense?

And someone who knows. Thank the lord. We need a national campaign on serious mental illness. First episode psychosis symptoms. Help available and how to access it. And we need it now!

Honestly it’s nonsense. And this thread is more of a danger to mentally unwell people than a phrase. What else are you going to call it?

Perhaps ARs parents didn’t know he could be sectioned. They didn’t know that was an option they could fight for. If you read this thread certainly people believe that. Perhaps they thought if he was sectioned he may never come back. Perhaps they thought their relationship would be ruined forever and he would grow out of it.

I don’t know but I firmly to this day believe they could have got him sectioned. The only people which see mentally unwell people in their entirety are the people they live with -their partners, parents, flat mates. Why they didn’t is the most important question.

You are completly derailing the thread from the original point the op was making. The thread is about the terminology used in regards to someone being detained under the mha. None of what you are posting is relevant. At all. Some of its pretty offensive actually to those with smi who are posting on here.

I'm not I'm talking about one specific person?

See, this is what makes me frustrated.

People bang on about how they're is much less stigma in MH and how good it is to bring your whole self to work.

And I'm sure that's true for lower level anxiety and depression.

Meanwhile, those of us with SMI are feared because it is perceived that we are a possible risk to others. As evidenced by this thread.

My manager knows that I experience psychosis and he knows what to watch out for (he's ace). But there is no other situation where I would use the "P" word at work.

It IS stigmatising and I would be viewed differently.

Not a bigot, but perhaps not realising that people with SMI are more likely to be a victim of violence than be the perpetrator.

@Franjipanl8r fortunately, most of us will not encounter murderers or the level of serious mental illness being discussed at first hand. But that doesn't mean we don't fear it. Nor does the fear of it make a person a bigot.

And again for those in the back!

The thing is, there are hospitals like that - Rampton, Broadmoor, Ashworth etc. Not in every county, but realistically that's not required (and many detained people would be delighted to stay in the same county when it is often not possible).

I also believe (if I'm wrong someone please correct me), that hospital orders can be indefinite, unlike most prison sentences with the exception of very rare whole life terms.

Can people please stop equating serious mental illness with murdering please?! It’s incredibly offensive and bigoted.

This reminds of a thread a few years ago where OP's DM was still living with a very abusive partner and had no way to leave. She was suicidal as a result, and several people told OP to "get her sectioned" as a way to get her away from the abuse. Wrong on several levels.

I had a friend who took in her DS's ex off the street, and the lady ended up psychotic (drug induced) and making my friend's life hell. The local MH team were not interested. Just said that the lady needs to contact her GP (which is never going to happen as she thinks she is fine and everyone else is out to get her).

There is a such a high bar for being sectioned. I think people tend to watch the soaps and think that you just call someone, and your loved one is carted off to hospital (and gets a local bed straight away). It does not work like that at all.

I think (and you can tell me I am deluded) that there should be in every county a secure facility in which to hold/incarcerate the fairly small number of really dangerous people. Not the purely criminal, nor the intoxicated (police cells for those); the difficulty would be in determining which are really deranged and dangerous to normal society and everyday life. I don't know enough to offer a useful opinion here.

Surely with VC his schizophrenia was 100% to blame. He was not like that before he developed psychosis I don't think? Hence him being in a secure hospital whilst AR isn't.

Now there's a question we can't hope to answer - and again, not relevant to the original point of the thread.

MH problems tend to be profoundly multifactorial in nature so there's no silver bullet.

What would you like to see in place?

Glad we agree on that point at least! I am not being deliberately argumentative (I hope). I agree MH care needs to be much improved, but where are the funds needed to do this going to come from? We are already paying the highest rates of income tax across the population since 1948. You can't stop wealthy people leaving the country.