to think some women should not be punishing their DM/MILs regarding childcare?

It’s just women/ daughters ?

Looking about the site more widely I've seen a collection of similar topics related to the grandmother issue (as it does seem to be mainly grandmothers starting the threads?).

There is a thread about people not respecting women's time as compared to men, there is a thread about a friend feeling she is being taken advantage off by another female friend concerning childcare and women pushing childcare on other women more generally. It is not only grandmothers but I have noticed people are more incensed when they push back (and there has been a flood of threads).

I think it may make people uncomfortable that women are not making choices that would make their lives easier the same way there was for childfree women and unmarried women in the past. There will always be grandmothers very happy and able to do childcare just as there are women both happy and able to be mothers but anyone straying from the expectations even if they fall into these categories (on their own terms/with boundaries) still get such a push back.

Or perhaps it is showing that in some scenarios the situation is untenable. Women used to cover (and still do to an extent) unpaid caring. Now women have options and more agency and perhaps we need other options than guilting them into childcare and elder care.

That, plus there are people here like me. I'm a GP, but I don't want to inhabit a grandparent bubble. I want to understand or be reminded of what it's like to be parenting dependent children now. And being on Mumsnet has, I think, made me a better grandparent.

And of course you don't stop being a parent when your kids teach adulthood. So there's that too. I'm probably also a more considerate mother of adults.

I will say that the site makes me appreciate my DDs more and more, because they're easy going, thoughtful and appreciative. When I have my Grandkids I'm not faced with loads of rules, for starters!

These OPs always start off with a standard question, but within a few posts the OP always brings up that men aren't asked to do the same.

So I'm going with 'the same person who has an ace to grind', despite the being some truth to that observation.

This thread has been repeated over and over. It's designed to pit women against women and old against young, ultimately pushing a reactionary agenda against working mothers, because they are selfish/ stupid / it's impossible to both have financial self sufficiency and children. It is sexist and misogynist and I am absolutely sick of it.

It’s not that rare. I know someone who was emotionally strong armed into providing childcare because the other grandma had volunteered and apparently it “wasn’t fair” for her not to step up too. She was simultaneously caring for her parents who both had dementia. God knows where she found the strength to deal with it. She’s a better woman than me.

I think this is because MN has been going for a long time and people tend to stick with sites they started with.

Grandparents childcare threads are the new P&C car parking threads.

My family - originally me, my mum, my dad and my sister, just never functioned this like this. My brother is very selfish but the rest of us helped each other without thinking- with childcare etc. my mum died young sadly but my dad was devoted to us and we were devoted to him. He died without actually needing any heavy care but I’d have done anything I could for him, as would my sister. We did it because we were family and loved each other. Not helping wasn’t even a consideration but we already had that relationship.

This

I can post where I want thanks. I think you're extremely rude.

There arent any because its womens work and the menz aren't trifling themselves to figure out the problem.

My ds is in her early sixties and adores her first gc and is helping loads. Last week she offered to help beyond her main day that she does and then offers more.

Naturally dn avails himself of help with great enthusiasm but doesn’t pay close attention to arrangements. She offered 1 - 2pm one day recently and he turned up with the baby at 11 and left at 4. She was a little irritated but she adores the baby and finds it hard to be firm.

She will obviously, over time, develop stronger boundaries but it’s hard for her to say no. And it’s hard for the young parents not to push for more than is offered.

But weaponizing access is also a thing and that feels horrible.

They will work it out over time but I think so many of us do not realise how hard it will be to have kids.

Also parents now are not as strict which can be hard for older gps. I know a woman well who refused to look after her gc because she wasn’t quick or strong enough to wrangle them into the car or safety. She said the parents had brought them up to be fairly feral so she just didn’t feel she could handle them safely. So she withdrew all childcare.

My in laws were fantastic and took my two whenever they could and on holiday and away for the weekends. They took them to shows, museums, they were amazing. But they were very young fit grandparents and nothing was a greater priority! We were super lucky. But that was fairly evident as soon as I met DH and before we had kids - you could see what they were like as people and their generosity. But they lived three hours away so the support wasn’t on the doorstep.
I do think some new parents make assumptions about support which are not founded on anything.

Childcare is such hard physical work and new parents naturally don’t know what it’s like to be older and physically less robust.

I also think there is an understandable bitterness in young couples who look at the economic world that the grandparents benefited from. Some grandparents can or are willing to share those benefits more than others.

Elder care is a whole other world of complexity and that’s going to get ever more complicated. I don’t think it can be seen as quid pro quo - caring for the elders is so dependent on the individual case.

Have you ever been a carer? Specifically for an adult?

Its also vanishly rare to see someone refuse paid childcare and effectively force their parents into caring for their children, whereas I know plenty of people whose elderly parents don't want strangers in the house or don't want to pay out for care, but actually need huge amounts of input from their adult children to keep them safe and well.

Equally you can’t berate your parents for not helping you. The equivalence with caring for older parents is if they cared for theirs.

The difference is that the children didn’t ask to be born are raised to parents who are choosing to raise them (either by birth or adoption) and that choice to raise children comes with the responsibility to raise them. The children have no say and no agency because they are dependent children.

The elderly will have spend most of their lives as independent adults who are fully aware that becoming elderly is likely for most people and can prepare for that. They are not the responsibility of their adult children. Can you really not see the difference?

No indeed. Those are the lovely bits. Combining childcare with a job and care for your own elderly relatives, the restrictions of knowing you need to be there for pick up, plan your holidays around theirs, entertaining boisterous toddlers for 8 hours straight, hauling around equipment, following strict rules and guidelines because 'its different now', not the same thing.
I do this and gladly from free choice, but I'd be a bit put out if my adult children framed this as some sort of treat for me without acknowledging that its also useful and at times challenging work. Made not a bit easier for me than them by the fact I'm decades older.