To think that women reading erotica, however smutty, is not the same as men watching porn?

ACOTAR was one of my gateway books. I literally signed up to kindle unlimited so I could read every book in the ice planet barbarians series its magnificent 😂

The only reason books like that exist is because there is demand for it. Same as anything

Yes and no.

Obviously the real actor element is significant. Though I would note that a lot of television and film now has some pretty smutty elements using real actors and actresses which don't seem to make people look askance as much as you'd think. I suspect the reason women prefer written porn isn't because they are more moral, it's just because they prefer it. If they didn't I doubt they would avoid it more than men.

But in terms of training people to think of sex in a way that is objectifying, I don't think it's any better.

And I think OP you are missing a really important element when you separate out the more questionable trends in written smut for woman. The reason these trends, like pseudo-bestiality, incest, or "dark romance" have become such a thing is because written smut has the same effect or requiring an escalation as the reader becomes habituated. One of the latest dark romances everyone seems to want is basically child pornography, so I am not convinced that women are inclined to put the breaks on more than men do - the numbers reading this stuff are massive. Fans of fantasy now who want real fantasy rather than "fairy porn" are finding it difficult to avoid.

As for it not leading to men getting strangled during sex or the expectation of anal, etc - no, maybe not, but it certainly feeds into these kinds of trends affecting women.

One way in which I find the trend for women a little worse is the self-delusion. Most men seem to realise that porn is basically a kind of vice or potentially a vice, and about sexual satisfaction. But many women seem to think being big readers of smut means they are bookish. And books are good, so what's to worry about?

Reading erotic novels doesn’t tend to make women masturbate to the point they are unable to have functional sex with real life partners. Well not as far as I’m aware anyway. What’s the female equivalent of porn sickness?

Both porn and erotica are disgusting but porn is worse.

It isn’t the same as porn because no performers are involved. The actual acts and kinks described are often certainly as extreme as anything you’d see in porn though.

It always makes me laugh when Mumsnetters suggest that men are more pervy than women, that women don’t like anal sex, that women don’t have major kinks, that women don’t like this that or the other, and it’s just men getting their ideas from porn and imposing them on women. Because anyone who has ever read any of the vast multitudes of smut fiction and fanfic written by and for women will know that women write and consume material that is full of fantasies every bit as weird, dark and kinky as anything any man gets off on.

It isn’t the same as porn because no performers are involved. The actual acts and kinks described are often certainly as extreme as anything you’d see in porn though.

It always makes me laugh when Mumsnetters suggest that men are more pervy than women, that women don’t like anal sex, that women don’t have major kinks, that women don’t like this that or the other, and it’s just men getting their ideas from porn and imposing them on women. Because anyone who has ever read any of the vast multitudes of smut fiction and fanfic written by and for women will know that women write and consume material that is full of fantasies every bit as weird, dark and kinky as anything any man gets off on.

Sex with dinosaurs? How does that work.

are you referring to thus one post on that thread where the poster writes

Just about the only way you have a good chance of making money now in publishing is writing highly sexualized pornography. Lots of stuff there as weird and disturbing as male pornography, lots of weird beastiality-adjacent stuff (sex with dinosaurs, sex with aliens, sex with werewolves.) Lots is rather violent.

Yes and no.

Obviously the real actor element is significant. Though I would note that a lot of television and film now has some pretty smutty elements using real actors and actresses which don't seem to make people look askance as much as you'd think. I suspect the reason women prefer written porn isn't because they are more moral, it's just because they prefer it. If they didn't I doubt they would avoid it more than men.

But in terms of training people to think of sex in a way that is objectifying, I don't think it's any better.

And I think OP you are missing a really important element when you separate out the more questionable trends in written smut for woman. The reason these trends, like pseudo-bestiality, incest, or "dark romance" have become such a thing is because written smut has the same effect or requiring an escalation as the reader becomes habituated. One of the latest dark romances everyone seems to want is basically child pornography, so I am not convinced that women are inclined to put the breaks on more than men do - the numbers reading this stuff are massive. Fans of fantasy now who want real fantasy rather than "fairy porn" are finding it difficult to avoid.

As for it not leading to men getting strangled during sex or the expectation of anal, etc - no, maybe not, but it certainly feeds into these kinds of trends affecting women.

One way in which I find the trend for women a little worse is the self-delusion. Most men seem to realise that porn is basically a kind of vice or potentially a vice, and about sexual satisfaction. But many women seem to think being big readers of smut means they are bookish. And books are good, so what's to worry about?