to think a lot of men don’t actually want children as much as they say they do?

My husband took a year off after my maternity leave to be a stay at home dad, so I'm not sure we are exactly typical. But i'd agree he was pretty ambivalent about having kids or not having them when I first met him. His previous long term partner hadn't wanted any and it was not a deal breaker for him.

He was very much an equal partner in the chores/ nappy changes/ rocking babies to sleep stuff. But you aren't wrong about the 'helping' either. I think this is just a man thing. Somehow I seem to have to be the one who tells him what needs doing in all aspects of our lives, its not just with the kids, and lots of my friends seem to find the same with their marriages.

I should add- he wouldn't be without kids now he has them. He is in the next room with our son playing chess :)

I think there's something in what you say. I'm a bloke and before my first child was born I didn't appreciate just how life-changing it would be. I can't say that my DP did either but it's unignorable that pregnancy affected her way more than it did me and actually giving birth is something I can't even comprehend. By the time we had our second child I at least had a better idea of what the sleepless nights etc would be after birth but I still didn't have to deal with labour, breast-feeding and all the rest. I definitely wanted to have children with her but I can't say I fully understood the real-world implications of that at the time. Who can, hand on heart, say they did?

Nevertheless there is definitely a proportion of men who see having kids as ittle more than the price they pay for having a relationship with a particular woman. They don't necessarily see it as a life-long commitment, it's just something you need to do to keep them on the hook, like taking them out for Valentine's or getting them a present on their birthday. I think there's a fair number of women who see having children in much the same light.

It’s not just an “attitude” floating around on Mumsnet. It’s the lived experience of many women, myself included. The idea of being a father, of having a family unit, is far more alluring than the reality when that reality tests the selflessness of some - nobody is saying all - men. I’m sure the same could be said for some (far fewer) mothers.

Yep. They like the idea of it and the status but ultimately everything has to serve what they want so if it’s not working for them they’re off.
I may be jaded but we are here to give our opinions based on our experiences and that’s mine.
I do have men in my life who are wonderful fathers. Minority though.

I disagree. I think women do it because they have to. Women’s jobs are paid less so a lot give them up. There is no fall back as it’s socially unacceptable for women to give up and leave. It’s not as socially unacceptable for men to give up. It’s not biology, it’s societal expectations and generations of brainwashing.

I only see this type of attitude on this site. All my friends share parenting equally and I have noticed the same at school. Today a lot of us finished work early and picked the children up at the usual time and went to the park - complete mix of men and women. There are a few parties tomorrow and the parents are sharing the load.

If I’m honest, I’d say my husband does put a lot more effort into childcare than me.

I don’t think either sex can really know what it’s like day-to-day until they actually do it and many struggle with it.

But I do think men in general are less suited to the grind of raising children, particularly when they’re young. I just don’t think it comes as naturally to men as it does to women.

Yes, I know there are exceptions but we are talking in general terms here.