AIBU for stopping a nice Muslim girl from showing my son her hair?

It sounds a lot like a story

https://img.gifglobe.com/grabs/partridgecloud/S02E02/gif/Jwxi1ghe4CAs.gif

It says ‘nice’ because the girl is culturally different from the op.
these types always make a point of saying how nice and lovely non English people are (normally non white) when they’ve had any kind of interaction with them.

I imagine they think its a good thing when hosting a child to supervise them in accordance with what they believe would be the parents wishes.
Like if you knew a visiting child wasn't allowed to go to the park without an adult you'd probably tell them to stay in your garden.
Its a sound principle to follow when hosting children, which people typically adhere to I'd have thought?

Protected her from what?

Yabu. If a muslim girl chooses to wear a headscarf that's ok. If a muslim girl doesn't want to wear a headscarf that's ok. If a muslim girl is being made to wear a headscarf by her parents and doesn't know or understand why and doesn't have any inhibitions about taking it off then it's ok for her to take it off. If her parents aren't making her wear it, but saying she can if she wants to but there's no problem with her choosing not to until she reaches puberty then she already knew it was fine to take it off if she wanted to and you massively overstepped by telling her "no". You are not the boss of her body. Her parents are not the boss of her body. She is the boss of her body.

If a girl is going to wear a headscarf all the time after puberty it's not a binary thing that the day before she starts wearing it she's never worn it at all and next day it's a permanent thing. It's quite normal for prepubescent girls to wear it for school hours but not in the evening. It really isn't your job to police this.

It is your job to teach your son about boundaries so it would be a good idea to chat to him about women's choices and how it's not appropriate for him to ask any woman or girl to make a different choice than the one she wants when it's about her body.

Muslims come from many different countries where cultures are very different e.g. Pakistan is very different from the Gulf States. But they are all Muslim (Sunnis).

I am asking this in a positive spirit but I am genuinely bemused as to why do people think that OP reinforcing a misogynistic set of social rules (there is no equivalent for boys) is a good thing?

What if she wanted to take it off? Why would OP tell her not to? Is this people keen to demonstrate how tolerant and understanding they are towards a different culture (that also uses coverings to oppress women en masse) but those kind intentions have now tipped over into enforcement on behalf of the belief holders?

This is a very good point. In a situation like that, IF I felt it appropriate, I would have told my son not to ask things like that of girls clearly do the girl had a clear get out if she wanted.

I would certainly NOT presume to tell that girl not to uncover her hair as a) it is none of my business and b) she may have wanted to.

What if the question came about because the girl was chatting to OPs son about how much she hated wearing hair covering and then up pops OP to further reinforce her lack of freedoms as a girl.

I think you did the right thing, being cautious in the heat of the moment. I think ideally you could have asked a 10 year old "are you sure that's a good idea" or "would your parents usually allow that? " or something similar, but it must have happened so quickly!

would I only serve pork? No.

Would I tell the child to eat pork? No.

would I prevent the child from eating pork? No.

its not my job to enforce beliefs. Unless there is a medical restriction, the child gets to make their own choices.

Who is telling these girls that they have to cover up? Why is it OK if it's cultural or religious, when those who don't are often thought to be 'immodest' if they don't? There have been honour killings in the UK when females don't conform.

Would you be happy with someone telling you what to wear or not?

The correct response would have been for OP to tell her son that he should not be asking anyone, whether male or female, to remove items of clothing. It's about the son knowing what he should do, how he should behave, not about a female protecting her modesty, which is what hijab is about.

Plenty round here and not African Muslims. In my DD’s private girls school. At least a few in every year group from about age 7 upwards. Personally I can’t stand it - there seem to be more and more girls covering up. I think it’s appalling and has no place in our society and I don’t really care if that’s not PC. Frankly more people in the UK should be objecting to it, we are so live and let live here and it will be to our detriment.

Its a properly lovely thing that you did. You protected her. Even if she was ok with it, its nice to know a parent in the community is happy to let her know the boundaries are there for her if she wants them.

Christian-based values" which have been used to oppress women for centuries which is why such values should be forcibly shoved up the arse of those that espouse them.

So you reject our Christian based legal system and values about fair play and being a positive contributor to society?

There are no current Christian based requirements for women to cover their hair and bodies excessively in the UK, nor should there be any for any other religion.

Yes and this is one of them.

maybe at present but given the increasing numbers coming here and covering up and the issues it causes in society, that will need to be reviewed quite soon. At the very least, as a free (ish) democratic (ish) society I don’t think we should be enabling the import of a tool used to oppress millions of women throughout the world.

We can’t know which women are doing this out of pure free will and how many are doing this because of coercion (worries about being viewed as not ‘nice’ or not a ‘good Muslim’ in their community) to outright abuse where non English speaking women are brought into this country and kept isolated by men who keep them covered as their property. You just have to look on social media to see these men only discussing how they keep their multiple wives away from other men.

Imagine getting into trouble for merely showing the hair on her head. Poor children living under that type of draconian rule.

This.

Rules are different depending on the sex. Very middle age feel and very unequal.

Is girls hair particularly awful to show off whereas boys hair not so. Strange practice still going of modesty for girls and shame if shown as if showing your hair is wrong. It isn't, billions of people show their hair all the time. It is the sexualisation of children, anyone tempted by a female child is sick and needs treatment.

I think you probably embarrassed her! It wasn’t your place to tell her to keep her hair covered.

Appalling edict in the first place. Poor girl!

Yes, this label of ‘nice Muslim girl’ is interesting. Why is ‘nice’ the word that OP selected and what are the implications?

Interestingly, I have only heard this phrase used by Muslim families themselves in order to differentiate with the ‘not nice’ or less ‘well behaved’ non Muslim girls. DDs Muslim friends are very limited in who they are allowed to hang out with.

This is a differentiation widely reported by rape gang victims as well. They were targeted because they were white and seen as a legitimate target.

Yes and this is one of them. This is a country where women can choose how they dress. The issue here is how much of what a child wears should be up to a child, and how much to the parent.

Oh and women having to cover their hair and bodies fits beautifully with "Christian-based values" which have been used to oppress women for centuries which is why such values should be forcibly shoved up the arse of those that espouse them.

Why is it ‘white western ignorance and arrogance’ to criticise the use of head coverings for women which are used as a tool of oppression against women across the world.

Women in Afghanistan are now only allowed to see out of one eye when out in public. Women in several Islamic countries are regularly punished, beaten and even murdered for not submitting to this oppression.

It has been used in Western schools as a form of bullying (more radical Muslim students putting pressure on other Muslims and non Muslims).

It was reportedly used to hide the long term abuse of Sara Sharif and prevent normal safeguarding procedures from protecting her from being murdered.

Many Muslim women and women of colour are fighting against this sort of oppression - why are you attacking ‘white women’?

We are regularly told that head coverings are not religious requirement - they should not be allowed for children or in schools as they are divisive and potentially harmful for children.

We are a country with Christian based Western values. There are lots of countries that allow/enforce hijab/niqab that people can choose from if that is how they wish to live their lives.

Did he persuade or coerce or did he ask? If this child is allowed agency over her own body then why was she not allowed to choose whether to show her hair or not?

A little muslim girl said her scarf was too tight and asked me to help her loosen it a little and I'm going back over 23 years
Honestly, i was just about to do so when the form teacher screamed (yes really) and completely pushed me away from her; apparently I couldve been charged with assault for touching her head.
So dont never ever touch a headscarf ever

It sounds like you can’t see a problem with this. A little girl should not be made to wear a headscarf at all. Preventing adults from helping to make her comfortable is just cruel.

Why would anyone support that?

Did you know that the abusive parents of Sara Sharif hid her injuries at school with a hijab before she was finally murdered?

Surely child welfare should come first and not be compromised by being forced to wear items that we are regularly told us not even a religious requirement?

Why so keen to support customs imported from countries where it is used as a tool of oppression for women?