To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

Speaking from personal experience (as a white WC woman who over achieved with a brother who underachieved), I think the main reason is that education is not seen as important amongst most white WC males, they’ve heard their whole lives how their fathers, uncles, grandfathers etc had no qualifications, but had good jobs and supported families.

The main career option for them is usually to go into the trades (which is a lot less appealing for girls) where they can earn good money and can start off as labourers (not needing any qualifications). This is very common with the boys I went to school with and what almost all the men in my family have done.

There’s also the difference between the way boys and girls are raised, I was raised to be agreeable, compliant, conscientious, mature, independent, boys are typical infantilised and have excuses made for them, so they behave more poorly and are less conscientious and mature.

I don’t believe it is anything to do with schools apparently being more suited to girls, it’s that behavioural standards are much lower for boys, they have less respect for authority and do not value education because they have other career options that earn well which girls don’t have or are not appealing.

I know. And this is accepted. However it seems that when white working class families also have a different cultural approach to education, this is a problem that must be 'fixed'.

Some kids disengage from an academic curriculum.early and struggle to catch up
A more technical curriculum would be better for some kids.

I never said you mentioned the army. I was using it as an example that learning doesn't have to stop at a certain age. If a child were put into a stream that didn't suit them after a year there is nothing to stop them from going on to complete further education.

0-3 years is so formative, education has already started and there will already be stark differences between parenting

Ah because this thread is the only place this topic has ever been discussed ….

Traveller communities have a different cultural approach to education frequently ending school attendance at 14. This is the report on which the Spiked article is based:

https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/newsroom/white-working-class-boys-still-at-the-bottom-of-the-class-says-race-report-chief

I don't think it's the actual cultural capital per se that leads to better outcomes. The children who have cultural capital reserves from an early age are generally speaking from engaged, financially solvent, stable families who value these activities. This cultural capital is important further down the line when in the world of work. Many BAME children are high achievers but are lacking this cultural capital (although they certainly have their own forms of cultural capital), which is why there are measures to level up.

That's not what I said. I didn't mention the army. I was talking about the German system and how much flexibility is built in, however, someone has answered that.

My husband left school at 16 with no GCSEs, he now has a degree. He joined the army and did every qualification offered to him. If a child gets to 16 and has a functional skills style qualification and some trade knowledge, why that would prevent them from going on to study after this point?

I challenge you to find anyone in this thread who has said "white kids are lazy and naughty and all ethnic kids are studious hard workers" or anything close to that.

The German system of gymnasiums and technical schools seems to work far better than ours and they have much lower rate of youth unemployment.

The technical schools are extremely effective at teaching trades, skills and offering apprenticeships from 15 yrs onward - whereby students are working part time at school a part time on the job.

I saw that video, it was sad, they were basically pleasant, friendly young men who weren't really into what the rally was about but it will give them a sense of belonging and there is a fair chance that will lead to them getting more deeply involved.

A slight correction to your title OP, Gypsy and Roma are actually the ethnic group with the worst educational outcomes, followed by Irish travellers, both by quite some considerable margin. Traveller girls do marginally better than boys, but not by much.

Source: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest/#by-ethnicity

I agree with this.

My parents were immigrants. My father came to the U.K. and went to university here so I wasn’t the first in my family to go to university.

I value education as does my husband and we’re born here, it’s drummed into our children to make the most of what is on offer and to try your best. My youngest has done her 11 plus exam last year and passed and will go onto a grammar school. She did one year of tuition. Her peers (white background) some didn’t pass because the parents wanted them to have a break from studying over the summer, and they missed out by 1 or 2 marks. And some of them studied for 2 years. We continued to study (1-2 hours a day) during the summer and passed over the threshold. It’s the attitude to learning that is often different.

I think when they’re little and have the ability, you push them to succeed. You can’t leave it up to your children to decide, faff around and then leave with mediocre results. I am not saying this is the way for everyone as everyone is different but it’s the thought process that a lot of people from ethnic backgrounds have. It’s also one of the reasons I wasn’t allowed to have a boyfriend at school as it would take the focus away from my studies.

People should do what they think is best for their kids, but the above is an insight to how most people like me think.

I wasn’t good at maths either it runs in our family so don’t worry about it.”

A common comment and not totally class related, a Colonel's wife said it to me, a Maths teacher, when her son was struggling. Strangely I never heard it said about reading, that seemed to be the Holy Grail of learning!
On the original subject, I retired, early, 20 years ago and the situation regarding white working class boys was starting to be discussed before then so it's not new. We had 'initiatives' to support girls in general, 'looked after' children ie in care or foster homes, the very least able through Special Needs as it was called then and the most able Gifted and Talented, none of which supported the working class boys of average or slightly below average ability
Before that job I taught in a very diverse school in the Bradford area and one thing we were told was not not say anything negative about the attainment of the black children as it had been known to create problems for them at home, the expectations were very high.

I don’t think that anyone is saying that all white working class kids are lazy and that all ethnic kids are studious and hardworking
Op asked why white working class boys generally do worse than other ethnic groups and posters are simply giving some of the reasons which includes some personal anecdotes
My dds attended a grammar school in Kent and a third of the pupils were from ethnic minorities many of them travelled from inner London

Socioeconomic background is the biggest determination of outcomes in the UK. The UK has a huge inequality of achievement based on class but there is absolutely no appetite from any government to solve the class, and therefore opportunity, gap.

Thanks. I know of the Swedish system, which has quite good built in flexibility.
I think because of the negatives of the binary grammar/secondary modern of old, it would take a massive change to institute that here.

In the German system there's plenty of flexibility in a sense. But being in the Apprenticeship stream isn't lesser, it isn't something you can or need to escape from in order to do well, it just provides a different route for doing well. So, for example, my cousin was severely dyslexic and hated school. He started the apprenticeship route, working for one of the big supermarket chains on the shop floor but with (compulsory) day release to college to learn about retail and business. He was quite good at his job and the college model suited him better so he later started courses in management and worked his way up and today manages an IKEA store. He wasn't condemned to spend the rest off his life stacking shelves but, equally, shelf stacking is considered a respectable job that one can take pride in and that requires training. An uncle of mine worked his way up from junior draftsman to architect in the same way (that was a long time ago though).

The first post nails it really.
I live near London, all our near-by grammars and independent schools are 70-90% filled by middle class Asian children who have been tutored since nappies which is very common e.g. in India. When my children in my 90% white small village school with 20% of children on free school meals tell their colleagues that they have aspirations to go to the university, they hear 'why do you bother, my dad never did A-levels and is doing fine' (working part-time cash-in-hand and claiming benefits...).

Quite. I would love to see a similar thread on the shocking lack of construction skills in middle class boys.

Although working class white boys have poor educational outcomes, they often have better life outcomes than their peers. Asian girls might perform high in school but often still expected to marry and become home makers. Black boys might perform slightly above white peers in school but generally have worse life outcomes.

Yep, this. My experience was very similar. I know that grammars were divisive and secondary moderns failed people, but for parents like mine (especially my dad, who grew up in south London in abject poverty) they were an absolute lifeline. Class is so ignored here and yet so influential. We need to find ways to work with, and change, the system we're in instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

@Hallamule Essentially the components of cultural capital (Boudieu, 1986)along with social capital, symbolic capital.