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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

465 replies

Carla786 · 22/04/2026 22:38

A lot of stuff I've read recently has argued the way school is set up disadvantages boys compared to girls. But this doesn't explain why white working class boys would perform worse than wc boys of other ethnicities.
Asian wc boys are more likely to have present fathers,,but black wc boys less likely than white boys (I think). So absent fathers I'm sure are part of the problem, but then maybe also black boys then have a protective factor that still boosts performance which white boys don't have? What could this be?

And how can white wc boys be helped? The question also remains why white wc girls are apparently less affected too : maybe I suppose tying in to school methods being more suited to the average girl?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

The betrayal of white working-class boys

Anyone who still believes in white, male privilege should take a look at England’s school system.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

OP posts:
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Original poster
Carla786 · 23/04/2026 19:41

ChachiChichi · 23/04/2026 10:30

'Education' (and systems within it) could be viewed as foisting middle class values onto working class kids/communities. Explaining the distrust and lack of engagement.

What kind of values do you mean? To do with education...or more in the sense of wider cultural etc attitudes towards things?

OP posts:
oldshprite · 23/04/2026 19:01

JHound · 23/04/2026 18:49

This is a lie.

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whatever. cant be bothered to look for all the data. it was actually the economist, where i read something about the ‘left behind’ boys. feel free to call the guys at the economist liars..i have 0 skin in this game

AprilMizzel · 23/04/2026 18:54

Part of it must be the flip side of social mobility. Education is a big driver of upward mobility. So those who remain working class are descendants of those who haven't made the transition now over repeated generations. It's a different stock

DH and I different school encountered that attitude that because our parents had very working class jobs we couldn't shouldn't be academic. Thing is they didn't in 50/60 have same access to education as we did in 90s.

I found it worse though - less with our jobs - more assumption from schools/teachers because of areas we lived schools DS attended they couldn't be good students. (No bank of mum and Dad meant our options for housing were less than some of our uni peers who did have that support)

I think that's the downside of such thinking - it every soon means lower expectations or barriers to kids who are from such backgrounds.

Also DC secondary school decade ago when eldest joined had worked up to pretty good exams results - bad inspection and head and staff leaving and struggling to get any head - and now the reason so many do so badly in exams is the low social economic area despite fact last decade area social economic outlook actually improved. Same intake - poorer results hides behind social economic factors.

Poor kids generally go to less good schools - house price lottery - and have less access to external school resources that makes things harder for them.

Area I grew up in massively gentrified and poorer kids have moved away - DH area slower but now more a commuter belt for nearby towns. I think in many senses the problem can move on to new areas so it seems like it's been fixed - or it can't that is area with cheapest housing and it gets endemic partly through "stock" and partly though low expectations and not for the likes of us thinking.

Namingbaba · 23/04/2026 18:54

Sorry not read all replies but I thought a big part of this disparity was to do with geography. Don’t ethnic minorities tend to be in cities and urban areas more. I thought a lot of money was spent on bringing up schools in London which used to be behind but now are doing well. Obviously not the only factor.

JHound · 23/04/2026 18:49

oldshprite · 23/04/2026 18:39

there are no diversity programmes for white wc boys, but there are for poc. i think thats part of a much larger issue. there must be a guardian article on this..

This is a lie.

JHound · 23/04/2026 18:47

Aluna · 23/04/2026 18:02

Right. I think that’s one for: “As a black man” subreddit.

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IYKYK! 😄

Onmytod24 · 23/04/2026 18:47

Everyone is basing their theories on their own personal experience. You’re not getting any answers. They’re mostly contradicting each other.

DelectableMe · 23/04/2026 18:44

Schools have changed a lot on this in the last 15 years or so. "No child left behind".

keepswimming38 · 23/04/2026 18:43

Too much time spent gaming and watching influencers in the manosphere. I know so many people whose sons just sit gaming and they say they are neurodivergent so 🤷‍♀️. Basically other groups; Asian, Indian have more ambition.

DelectableMe · 23/04/2026 18:42

oldshprite · 23/04/2026 18:39

there are no diversity programmes for white wc boys, but there are for poc. i think thats part of a much larger issue. there must be a guardian article on this..

What do you mean? Do you mean in schools? As pp have said, there are plenty of programmes and financial support for this cohort. Teachers are specifically asked to focus on them (as well as other identified groups) when we both predict and breakdown our results.
We have to explain outcomes.

Pearlstillsinging · 23/04/2026 18:42

ExtraOnions · 22/04/2026 22:49

Multi-generational lack of engagement in Education; leading to low aspiration, lack of importance in Education, lack of positive role models, lack of parental support in Education, and a curriculum that feels unachievable.

Yes all this. Macho fathers not valuing education.

DollydaydreamTheThird · 23/04/2026 18:41

Carla786 · 22/04/2026 23:02

Is this common? Definitely the male role model discouraging education would be very unhelpful.

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I think this is bollocks. My dad is working class with no qualifications and he encouraged us all the more to do well at school. I would be considered middle class now which I'm not fond of if I'm honest but without the encouragement I might not have done so well.
I think a lack of vocational options at secondary school for kids is a massive problem. Not everyone is academic and schools haven't changed for decades. Some kids would do better with basic english, maths and science and then the rest of the time spent on more practical learning. I also think for the kids without male role models, the distinct lack of youth clubs and extracurricular options leads them down the wrong paths. They feel like noone gives a shit about them and they wouldn't be far wrong would they? I heard labour are investing in youth clubs on a small scale as a pilot in a few big cities. It couldn't come sooner in my opinion and I hope they roll them out everywhere.

TakeOffSound · 23/04/2026 18:40

Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:40

No- I'm a history student, I think essay writing is making me get into the habit of being formal when I write 🤣 even when it's not needed

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Ah ok.

Original poster
Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:40

TakeOffSound · 23/04/2026 18:39

Are you a journalist or researcher? Your questioning style is a bit like one.

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No- I'm a history student, I think essay writing is making me get into the habit of being formal when I write 🤣 even when it's not needed

OP posts:
oldshprite · 23/04/2026 18:39

there are no diversity programmes for white wc boys, but there are for poc. i think thats part of a much larger issue. there must be a guardian article on this..

Original poster
Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:39

Dappy777 · 23/04/2026 17:33

There is an anti-intellectualism in Britain that is very depressing. You find it at all levels of society (I doubt Prince Harry has ever read a serious book), but it's especially strong among the working-class.

I know a French girl with an English husband. She once said to me "oh, he's SO English." As time went by I realised that by "so English" she meant an ignorant, beer-swigging, football-obsessed oaf who would no more go to an art gallery than jump off a cliff. Years ago I remember going in a French supermarket and wandering around the book section. I was amazed to see Voltaire and Flaubert and so on. In an English supermarket you'd never see Jane Austen or Virginia Woolf, just the latest piece of drivel from Jordan.

This too! Interesting you mention Prince Harry, I was thinking he's the flip side of this. A bit like Mark Twain's Prince & the Pauper story: but for the accident of his birth, Harry could be one of the struggling boys we're talking about.
Anti intellectualism wasn't always such a thing among working class men. The 1800s had working class men and also women attending classes via friendly societies in classic lit & other subjects. Deindustrialisation seems to have made this kind of atmosphere vanish. There is also the difficult part of the selection effect : as the more aspiring leave, the least are left behind. And the jobs are not there.

OP posts:
TakeOffSound · 23/04/2026 18:39

Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:31

I do think some of this is part of it : how can this be improved?

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Are you a journalist or researcher? Your questioning style is a bit like one.

Original poster
Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:33

JudgeJ · 23/04/2026 18:09

When the tri-partite system was introduced just after WW2 the third element was Technical schools for those with practical skills but this never really took off which left the Grammar schools for the most academic and the Secondary Modern schools for the not so academic. Of these the Grammar schools succeeded in raising the standards for working class children, like me, they were so successful that they had to go on the altar of 'equality'. We're now left with a system that is offering a curriculum that is not fit for purpose for a large majority of children, offering things which are totally unsuited to ability.

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Yes, grammars were good imo. But technical skills never really got the same good treatment. I've read some Euro countries do this better, want to read up

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Original poster
Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:31

GeneralPeter · 23/04/2026 16:38

Part of it must be the flip side of social mobility. Education is a big driver of upward mobility. So those who remain working class are descendants of those who haven't made the transition now over repeated generations. It's a different stock. Not the same for non-white people in the UK, who may have fewer generations of genuine social mobility to filter through, plus the benefit of the selection effect of who choses to back themselves to emigrate.

Also 'working class' is often used (unfairly) as the catch-all description for the 'bottom' socioeconomic group, many of whom are not in fact very economically active and who would struggle to be able to immigrate if they weren't from here. So again, selection effects.

Edited

I do think some of this is part of it : how can this be improved?

OP posts:
Original poster
Carla786 · 23/04/2026 18:31

PotolKimchi · 23/04/2026 07:51

There are less than 150 Black students across all degree courses at Oxford every year. 19% of Eton is BAME and most of that is wealthy immigrant families.

That post above is EXACTLY the problem.
If you are failing economically/educationally then someone else (usually a different race) must be to blame. Do you seriously think white working class boys in Year 5 are thinking ‘I had better not study because I can’t go to Eton or Oxford.’

Yes that post seemed a bit odd. Even the original article was clear that was only one part.

OP posts:
TakeOffSound · 23/04/2026 18:20

Just to give another point of view. I am Asian and was raised by parents who valued education over everything. Luckily, I was academic and did very well, as did my siblings. But there was a heck of a lot of pressure. We were basically told that we had to be doctors, lawyers, or engineers. The next rank down was Dentists and pharmacists. If we did badly, we might end up as teachers. And that was it.

I have an English husband and been much less ‘Asian’ in the raising of my kids. I don’t want them to kill themselves working and they have been free to choose their degrees themselves with no pressure for me. Of course I wanted them to do well in education, and they had all our love and support but I didn’t want to repeat the very limited educational world view of my parents. They have flourished by themselves. Too much academic pressure is definitely not a good thing. Growing up we were always compared to our peers and it felt like one lifelong competition.

anyway, things are changing. I work in London with deprived communities. There are many Asian kids, boys and girls who are not performing well. Especially the boys. There are Asian teenagers taking drugs, getting involved in gangs and violence and not studying hard. Asian youths with misogynistic views. Of course, the stats say what they say. But I do think the next generations of Asian kids here will not all be following the same patterns of educational success as their ancestors.

JudgeJ · 23/04/2026 18:09

Nitgel · 23/04/2026 11:09

Some kids disengage from an academic curriculum.early and struggle to catch up
A more technical curriculum would be better for some kids.

When the tri-partite system was introduced just after WW2 the third element was Technical schools for those with practical skills but this never really took off which left the Grammar schools for the most academic and the Secondary Modern schools for the not so academic. Of these the Grammar schools succeeded in raising the standards for working class children, like me, they were so successful that they had to go on the altar of 'equality'. We're now left with a system that is offering a curriculum that is not fit for purpose for a large majority of children, offering things which are totally unsuited to ability.