To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

I’m 38, so I’m going to pretend me being eight wasn’t long ago. I know when our son was at a UK primary (he’s ten), the only additional thing there EAL students was a tablet to use google translate.

I don’t know how old you are and this wasn’t a thing when I was in school either. But all schools do get extra money for those pupils who have English as an Additional language (EAL)

Ds and his friend at 8years old (friend came to the UK at 3 months old) both struggled with reading and writing, his friend though was given separate lessons together with other pupils who weren’t born in the UK and after a while those who had the help moved off the lowest table and those who didn’t stayed put

OTOH I have a friend who despite her dc having spent all but the first few weeks of their lives abroad. On returning to the Uk as teens. Both children struggled with reading and writing English She asked about the EAL lessons but school told her they were only available to those born outside the UK

If it was truly an IQ test then tutoring for it wouldn't help and there's plenty of evidence that it does. Super bright kids pass regardless but the more average candidate can certainly be helped across the line.

And it is also twaddle to say that girls would only get married. I can think of only one of my peers who married at 16. One out of 120. The rest of us were more aspirational. We wanted jobs, we wanted money, we wanted to go out into the world and achieve things. A large proportion of us 'only' became teachers

What a load of old twaddle. The 11+ did not depend on cultural capital. It was an iQ test, consisting of verbal reasoning etc. It wasn't looking for what candidates knew, it was looking for candidates future potential.
I know. I took it. I passed. I was clever.
In no way did my parents have the time or money to drag me round museums and recitals or pay for extra tuition.
Although I did read a lot, my actual reading skills and knowledge from books was not tested. Nor my knowledge of history and geography. I didn't even study science until I got to grammar school. Nor French.

The pay scale was the same but, as I said, pay was degree related and you didn’t need a degree to teach at a secondary modern. Only around 20% of sm teachers had degrees in the 60s.

At grammars teachers got perks (ie allowances) for “good” honours’ degrees and extra funds for special positions that were more common in grammars. So on the same scale, grammar teachers often ended up being paid more.

You are correct
There are definitely DEI measures for white working class and travellers too

The pay thing isn't true, I taught in a Secondary Modern in the very early '70s and when the Authority was going Comprehensive I moved to the old Grammar school in preparation, it was becoming 13-18 with the Secondary Modern becoming a Middle School but my pay scale was the same in both.

You are lying though. Demonstrably so. You said there are no DEI measures for white working class children.

That’s a lie. I’m have linked you to exactly those kinds of measures.

Don't get me wrong, there aren't a lot of Asian children in the arts, but it is now an option for some whereas previously it wasn't a consideration.
There's an interesting thread about Harrow where posters are discussing how the increasing numbers of non ethnically white British pupils are changing the landscape, which is causing such schools to "lose their quintessential Britishness".

I went to a girls’ grammar in the north of England. Working class girls definitely hadn’t been weeded out.

i’m not sure whether grammar schools were a good idea overall or not, but they probably did promote social mobility for bright working class children.

That’s really interesting.
I wonder whether AI will turn things on its head again (thinking of the current thread on ABIU) and parents will again encourage (perhaps not push) their children into these roles.

I'm seeing this. Third generation whose parents are in fairly decent financial states are pushing back against the doctor/engineer as the only career path. Their second gen parents (who felt the pressure) are allowing arts degrees. The whole STEM focus is not just about money though, it's status too. It will be much harder for a graduate of fine art to get married than a doctor. But the younger generation are increasingly doing their own thing now and the parents are increasingly accepting this and even encouraging it too.
There has also always been an 'underclass' of Asian DC who did badly at school, got into drugs, violent crime etc very similar to the WC white boys situation.

I have never seen a programme such as you describe. I was working in a further education college where there were several low level courses e.g. pre entry and entry level nvqs. Those in construction, car mechanics etc were mostly full of white working class boys who had done badly at school. In the library and corridors there were posters showing many successful men and women e.g. architects, successful entrepreneurs, sports champions. Not one showed a white man if any age.When i queried this with the person responsible for selecting and buying the posters, i was told they werent needed. So dont bother aspiring via the education system if you are young, white, male and working class could be the message from these posters.

Yes I do think so. Already I can see that the next generations of Asian kids are different. Thankfully though, they know there are other careers than being a doctor or lawyer. They will work hard if that way inclined but will have different aspirations I think. And more willing to take career ‘risks’, so not automatically enter the professions, and be more open to the creative industries. I think that’s a good thing overall.

Obviously it won’t be good if they aspire never to work and stay at home, take drugs etc. I don’t think the majority will follow that route though.

Yep thats why I was being anecdotal not making a case

Not anecdotal- I went to a Girl's Grammar in the South West we had more girl's from the council estates than from the villages (which tended to be more affluent in most cases). 80% of us went to university- it was just assumed you would go.You can't base a case on one individual.

When I was at school, we did the 11+ . The marks were put up on the wall. There was one girl (who later went to Oxford) who consistently beat me in every test. She was formidable and such a polymath, I didn't mind losing to her. She was my first pacemaker and a remarkable example of how cultural capital can extend the brain in every area.

I was third on the list. Impossible. No one else could touch us two. Despite being a polite child, I was bold and asked my teacher how I had been beaten by boy X. The boys' grades were all automatically boosted by 5%. This hasn't happened for decades.

School is one of the few places were there is a (relatively) level playing field. It's one of the few places where men don't get the upper hand through the misogyny that pervades every other aspect of my life and yours.Women are strong, resourceful and multitask. We don't spend 10 minutes bleating about how we don't want to do a 2 minute task. FFS just let my daughters do better than the boys because they worked harder, chose to invest in themselves and did not fear being dragged out of their comfort zone to learn something challenging.

Anecdotal not statistical but my mum from a WC family in Leeds went to grammar, first in the family to Uni, Fulbright scholarship to the states and doctorate. She remembers her mum worrying about the cost of uniforms.

The comment about boys taking GCSE exams later might seem sensible but it doesn’t fit in with the reality. Some schools get really high results actually start the GCSEs in year nine rather than year 10 so they can take them earlier and that suits boys better

I looked into this for a different thread, and around the world, in different cultures, systems (including the much praised Scandinavian ones) , continents girls (when given the opportunity to do so) tend to outperform boys .