I can't undestand all the hatred for Paris on MN

I hadn’t been for years, so we went on a Eurostar City Break - loved it! A lot of Paris has now been pedestrianised so traffic effects are less & I think they incentivise electric vehicles, etc through the tax system, so my memories of smelly gridlocked traffic are now just that. The Eurostar package was a good price & hotel was v nice, though a bit distant, so we used the metro a lot. We were able to eat quite reasonably without much difficulty. Found Parisians generally pleasant, though as a big busy city, people are generally rushed and brisk. I definitely want to return.

I like it, it used to be a bit “nicer” but that’s the same as all big cities now that the trend is towards “megacities” with people from all over the world, rich and poor congregating there. There is crime and it can be dirty but it’s also vibrant and exciting. I’m older now and have always been a bit sensitive to sensory overwhelm so while I might enjoy visiting Paris and so on I’m not sure I’d want to live in such a large city again having previously lived in London and Moscow.

I think take the rose tinted glasses off and try to enjoy these places for what they are.

The only time I tried to speak to a local in French in Paris, it was cab driver - who pretended he couldn't understand my (granted, probably butchered) rendering of 'tour Eiffel'. He really was mean. No one else was very kind either. I think there are cities in the world where they are happy to have you, and and Paris isn't one. Which is their prerogative, of course. I'm just as happy to go elsewhere.

With respect, I’m not lying. I was there around 10 years ago and that was my experience. I didn’t walk every road, just like you didn’t.

Just accept that everyone has different views.

edit - drive through last year from the south of France and the number of homeless people living in tents along the motorway in Paris was shocking. Hidden out of view I’m sure but an awful situation for them.

Brussels is much worse

It’s astonishing people actually think in these terms.

Me neither. I love Paris.

Except I didn't say "only the English cause issues" did I? Or anything like it. I objected to you weirdly trying to correct my comment to assume I must have meant British people. Do you think "only British people cause issues"? What about the Dutch? What about moody Argentinians? I think there are grumps all over who shit on Paris. But I was talking about English ones and don't need you to tell me I meant otherwise 👌

How is it not?

Presumably you took out a mortgage to pay for all that! Or work paid…

I think people just have high hopes for Paris and expect some grand European city but in reality it is nothing like that anymore,

Yes I know that (love history). Just a bit weird to insist only the English cause issues.

I've seen plenty. And I agree, Paris is a wonderful place.

Well DM can’t walk far! I’m only going on what they told me. I don’t travel internally via rail in France much. Unless certain cities to others. Bordeaux to Toulouse, to Saintes, La Rochelle etc.

And this happened in the streets there. Took me by surprise.

My experience was in Bordeaux btw not Paris!

I would say though that in certain cities you have ghettos. We were warned when in Bordeaux (had to go a lot via airport to holiday home there) there were areas to be avoided. My ex colleague Yannick however, his grandparents lived in a suburb of Bordeaux and he had no fears whatsoever about anywhere there. The main thing which freaked me out was mostly black guys just staring at me or trying to chat me up. Happened twice. My French is ok but not fluent. And I don’t know many swear words! So I couldn’t say much to them, they were very persistent. I do a little bit now! I was there with my mum for the day it was as humid as hell, and hot, and Bordeaux is very spread out so we were a bit lost! Luckily we found a nice cafe and I calmed down and had some Pernod with water. 😋

There are often threads on here along the lines of ‘where have you visited that didn’t live up to expectations/hype’ and Paris always comes up on these threads. And until last week I was one of them. We visited for the day from DLP more than 15 years ago and I was really not impressed, busy, dusty, no charm, rude people. We just went to the wrong places (Champs Elysee, Eiffel Tower).

DH has aways wanted to return so eventually I have in, agreeing it deserved a second chance and we went for a few days last week. I absolutely loved it. We stayed in the area near the Louvre, so many beautiful buildings, and everybody seemed friendly and polite. We went Wednesday to Sunday, and if I went again we would choose Monday-Friday and avoid the weekend.

Re Notre Dame - we visited on Thursday, just joined the standard queue early afternoon. The queue moved very quickly but the queue continued /was very busy all the way round inside and a timed entry slot wouldn’t help with that.

Thanks for info. I will be there in a couple of months

When they reopened after the fire. They are free and basically just give you a time slot to avoid the queue. It's not compulsory.