AIBU to consider legal action after dismissal for long-term sickness?

So many people still say how much the Claire Weekes' book was life-changing for them. I've heard it so many times over the years. OCD has its own operating system, but there are some similarities as you have described. There's nothing bad or unusual about having intrusive thoughts or urges - we more or less all have them. The difference in brief for people who develop OCD is the meaning and significance they attach to having the intrusions and the steps they take to neutralise or cope with them (for instance checking, reassurance-seeking, performing rituals, etc). They cause distress and physical anxiety. This is a broad brushstroke and its slightly different for everyone, but they are the common components. I think you could say that the aim of treatment in OCD is to learn to ride out the intrusions and not validate them through the physical and mental actions, which actually function to reinforce the sense of threat/harm. So it's to change the relationship with the intrusions. This is similar to Claire Weekes' approach, I would say.

I’m really sorry this has happened - it sounds overwhelming, especially on top of everything you’ve been dealing with.

I don’t think you’re unreasonable for thinking about legal action but can’t say for certain you’ll win so suggest finding some free legal advice on disability discrimination: www.dls.org.uk/

Dismissal for long-term sickness can be lawful but your employer should follow a fair process, consider medical evidence, and look at reasonable adjustments etc.

It’s not guaranteed you’ll win but I’d do a access request for all your records from them and take it from there.

That may be so but still a possibility. A manager would be failing in her duty of care if she carried on with the employment of someone who had intrusive thoughts of hurting people st her place of work using a knife! Quite frankly I’m amazed at people who can’t see this.

Fair, but this assessment should be done by a professional who understand OCD. To quote from the article again:

If healthcare professionals are uncertain about the
risks associated with intrusive sexual, aggressive or
death-related thoughts reported by people with OCD,
they should consult mental health professionals with
specific expertise in the assessment and management
of OCD. These themes are common in people with
OCD at any age, and are often misinterpreted as
indicating risk.
(This is from the NICE guidelines)

However, a
person with OCD can be harmed by an incorrect or
unduly lengthy risk assessment, responding with
increased doubts and fears about the implications
of their intrusive thoughts. At best this will lead
to greater distress, avoidance and compulsive
behaviours, and mistrust of health professionals;
at worst, to complete decompensation of the patient
or break-up of the family. In reality, there is no need
for overcautious reactions. Provided the clinician
has appropriate expertise in OCD, there are very
rarely any serious doubts about the diagnosis.

My post was mostly a response to folks talking about these thoughts as though they do indicate risk, which is incorrect.

It's not illegal to sack someone with a disability if that disability means they are unable to come to work for 8 months. I'm sorry this has happened to you but an employer cannot keep a position open indefinitely for someone who is too unwell to come to work. Are you on all the benefits you're entitled to?

You've answered your own question. There is no quick fix for mental health, but if you're taking 7 months at a time off, then they can't rely on you to do the job they are paying you for.

Moving forward, you need to find a way to work alongside your mental health. No one is obliged to pay your bills while you sort your health out.

people with OCD are not "making threats", obsessions occur because the OCD sufferer is MORE WORRIED by the sort of intrusive thoughts we all have
By definition they are LESS likely to act on these thoughts than others.

Which is all well and good.

But I'm not medically qualified, so am I just to accept that when someone tells me they're thinking about hurting people? What if someone is in crisis and genuinely thinking of harming others? I'm not qualified to determine whether or not it's their OCD.

The fact is, I have no idea if the OP is a risk to others or not, so the responsible thing to do is order a risk assessment.

This is a lesson to be very careful what you disclose to employers. There is massive misunderstanding about both ASD and OCD. Of course you are not going to act on those thoughts, that is classic OCD intrusive thinking. Best to get yourself fully well and then find another less stressful job. I doubt that trying to fight this will be good for your mental health.

Sorry to hear this. To make any fair assessment I would have to hear the managers side of the story.

You are not entitled to a job, but you are entitled to be treated fairly. Even from what you have said they have treated to you fairly. If you are unable to do the job, because of an illness then if makes sense they would dismiss

Maybe some advice from a no-win-no fee solicitor would be useful?

Mental illness stigma is alive and well on this thread. My goodness, people with OCD are not "making threats", obsessions occur because the OCD sufferer is MORE WORRIED by the sort of intrusive thoughts we all have
By definition they are LESS likely to act on these thoughts than others.

For anyone who thinks the OP might be a risk to others because of their thoughts take it from Paul Salkovskis & David Veale - two of the UKs leading OCD experts: they are not!

https://www.healthinnovationoxford.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Risk-Assessment-in-OCD.pdf

Extract: The phenomenology of OCD should lead us to consider two types of risk. The first –
primary risk – is only apparent and arises directly
from an obsession. The risk is that the patient will
act on an obsession (e.g. suicide or sexual acts with
a child) or impulsively act out an obsessional fear.

At its simplest, this need never be a concern: there
are no recorded cases of a person with OCD carry-
ing out their obsession. By definition, such intrusions are unacceptable and ego-dystonic, and the
person is no more likely to act on their intrusions
than a person with height phobia is to jump off
a tall building.

The article goes on to explore other risks, including the risk of worsening OCD by misunderstanding it.

This isn't quite a direct threat, and an employer shouldn't be sharing information about a colleague's mental health with their co workers anyway.

Employers have a duty of care to their staff. If they have reason to believe that there's a risk of harm, they can arrange a risk assessment, man or woman.

No, that's what a Polkey reduction is - process accepted as unfair, but would have dismissed anyway, reduction in comp can be as much as 100%. So a pyrrhic victory.

I've defended cases where this has happened - claimant won, but didn't get anything.

What reasonable adjustments could be made for the op to do their job, and yes I am wondering if a man made threats against staff how many women would happily work with them

Years ago I read books by Dr Claire Weekes who seemed to be one of the original authors for anxiety self help books, so some ideas and labels must have changed since then, but her idea of not being scared of the physical and mental symptoms, and instead of trying to stop intrusive and physical symptoms of anxiety, and just letting go to do their worst, helps you to realise that once the adrenaline has been used up, the thoughts and symptoms eventually go. Are the OCD thoughts the same as that?
I still find her original books more helpful than more new ones.

Im so sorry you have been through this struggle. Im not really understanding what you are wanting your employer to do though. You are classed as not fit for work. If you did act on the urge to hurt someone in the office that would be a sueable offence for them. I'm really sorry again for your true struggle as that completely would be another struggle. But I truly doubt you can take legal action.

Or a pilot with mental health problems, like Andreas Lubitz.

Which is amazing, but not required and not something every employer can afford.

Reasonable adjustments for a disability are required, but it seems extremely unclear what adjustments could be made for the OP to be able to do her job. I hope the new medication does help, in which case she may be able to return to work, but at this point, she can’t, and they don’t have to keep employing someone medically unfit forever. It is legal to dismiss someone for long term illness.

Reasonable adjustments is the minimum a company is legally required to do. Good employers will often go above and beyond, especially for a valued employee. I once worked for a company that sent someone home on full pay for two years through a period of ill heath, and contributed to private care.

@KittyCoo can you explain how your OCD affects your workday, and how much of the time it takes up? That might help us understand why your employer has taken this stance.

I guess that depends on who you work for. It is the case where I work. We have a lady with MS and they truly exhausted every angle before letting her go.

What exactly were the intrusive thoughts you told your boss you had?

Can you apply for ill health retirement and get pensioned off? Definitely apply for PIP and ESA to cushion you financially. As others have said, seek Union advice, ACAS might help and a 30 min free half appointment with a decent solicitor or ring CAB?

That happened when I started a new job once. Quite a few long term absences that went on for years. Once sick pay ran out they were forgotten.

I think they forgot I existed for a couple of years 🤷‍♀️

Unusual for an absence to span 3 years too usually after a year, if no return then dismissal happens. This isnt a hard rule! Just what has happened everywhere i have worked.