To think the junior / resident doctors are greedy, selfish, entitled & lazy?

Hmm, I don’t think I would equate what most lawyers with being being virtuous or good for society per se in the same way as doctors, nurses, teachers etc.
I also don’t see why doing a vocation or something virtuous means you do not deserve good or high pay in recognition. Why should they not have the trappings you refer to if they have studied and worked for it?
Lastly, I don’t recall any key worker asking for applause for their work.

@crankycurmudgeonI agree. It’s entitlement.

22% of medicine undergrads are privately educated. The BMA has a pop at that too! They say 7% go to private schools but that’s not true for 6th form. It’s double that. Who is to say these young people are not worthy doctors? Since when does school determine capability in medicine? I’d like to know if this 22% are on strike? Possibly they are not the most militant?

Of the 78% only 5% are working class and according to the BMA, that’s wrong too. So in effect it’s a left leaning organising that criticizes its own members! When we see a doctor, does anyone give a flying F as to where they went to school.

The looking at others might be an issue, but many doctors will not personally know loads and loads of high flyers- they just read about them and think they are identical. Like you, my dd is a lawyer and meets highly paid people all the time! Different area of law, but I agree doctors want the publically acclaimed virtue of the role. My dd does get thanked for what she does but, like a doctor, most people appreciate her when they need her! No clapping in the streets though!

Medicine is an unusual profession. In the normal course of things, you either do a virtuous job which doesn't have any expectation of high income (e.g. charity sector, teaching, nursing), or you do a high-paying job which doesn't come with any back-slapping for what a great guy / gal you are (e.g. C-suite business roles or commercial legal).

Among some doctors I have known, there seems to be a desire to square that circle. They want the kudos of being life-savers (I mean we literally clapped for them during Covid) and they want the very comfortable upper-middle class lifestyle that their mates who went into the finance / legal sectors have. After all, many (most?) doctors went to private schools and top universities, where many of their peers will have gone on to lucrative professions. My sense is that some of these doctors want to do a virtuous, 'vocational' professional, while also keeping up with their more obviously venal peers who prioritised their earning potential in deciding on a career.

Full dislosure - I'm a commercial lawyer. I make good money, but I don't expect anyone to congratulate me for what a great and upstanding contributor to society I am

I think that's what I find a bit tiresome about the resident doctors, the sense that they want to have it all: the praise of the public for the wonderful sacrifice they make for the good of others, and all the trappings of an upper middle class lifestyle.

And yet resident doctors as a group are attacked from all angles on threads such as these. So many ignorant assertions, not to mention the bitter, envious and just downright nasty ones. I see no resemblance in the picture that is painted of resident doctors and the whip smart, humble, hardworking and dedicated group of them that I personally know. The more I read of these attitudes, the more I think that, if this is indeed representative of the views of the general public, then maybe the NHS is moving towards being the healthcare system that they actually deserve. And hey, there's always Google and AI for those that are that way inclined.

Mainly just public sector health workers.

So yes, mainly doctors and nurses.

I can’t even imagine thinking this about hard working dedicated professionals who got fucked over

honestly have a word with yourself, if they went to the US they’d be on a 100k

The dedication to the strike seems to be poor - no one on the picket lines since Tuesday then only there for 3 hrs and increasing numbers turning up for work as usual.

Someone said they won’t be sitting on trolleys due to the strike. That’s the norm as no beds, failed discharges and the movement is so slow when boarding patients and that’s not down to the doctors. This has to be the most uneducated deluded statement ever.

the quotes about the definition of 'resident doctors' and about staff grades having disappeared were wrong.

@Greybeardy The nhs Doctors pay document is not wrong. There are bands for qualification stage as you would expect and seniority.

this is wrong. There are still an awful lot of staff grades/specialty doctors/associate specialists (currently propping up the rotas during the strikes!).

@JHound Only they have already had 30% and the current offer will make it 35% in 4 years. Plus the massive cost in pensions that brings about. It’s excessive and not fair on others who are equally trained and important. Doctors are not the only people who train for years for the public good but shout the loudest. Their earnings are a minimum. They are enhanced by over time and allowances. It’s not a basic salary and just under £40,000 as a new entrant is good.

Low “considering how much training and education they need to do”.

I have no issue with Dr’s fighting for more pay. I will never think somebody is”greedy” or “selfish” for wanting a pay increase.

The base starting salary of £38,831 is not low; it is well above the UK average salary, and increases year on year with pay scale progression.

I support them. They work extremely hard, are often burnt out, their job is barely comparable to any other public sector role. I also do not think they are greedy.

@MajorProcrastination Doctors will have had 35% with this recent offer over the last 4 years. They have the best pensions, to which we contribute 25%. What can you get that in the private sector? Then there’s overtime and undociable hours payments and toil. These doctors are not underpaid when you look at the total package. This is why the majority don’t support the strike. Add in great advancement salaries and the opportunity to make big bucks abroad at our expense. Working abroad is always in an insurance based scheme by the way. One that’s not trained them or a NHS. Hypocritical if nothing else and grabby.

Which means the private sector, which largely lacks the means to negotiate salary en masse, has to fund the doctors’ pay bonanza from their generally much smaller salaries, which barely even increase with inflation in the current climate and are now also taxed up the chuff.

You can kind of see why the public are not on board with this one.

Unskilled teachers, paramedics, military? How insulting. Other professions are also highly skilled of course, but they are less likely to hold the country to ransom compared to the junior doctors.

If people don't push back against wage increases which aren't in line with inflation it's just a race to the bottom.

Probity is great, I’m all for that. But giving full beans to a hysterical rant based on a MN post is probably not the best way to demonstrate it.

The “wink wink” was entirely a figment of your seemingly rather vivid imagination, dear. I made a factual statement about my DH’s working pattern, which didn’t suit your little narrative about the poor, struggling doctors, barely able to afford golf club membership and the down payment on a Merc, bless them.

It's not pearl clutching. It's called probity.

Sorry meant to quote the other poster.

And it's not pearl clutching.
It's called probity.