To think the junior / resident doctors are greedy, selfish, entitled & lazy?

Lucy Letby????

They are tone deaf and out of touch.

Whether they work hard or not is really irrelevant tbh.

Calling it “defence” doesn’t make it neutral. It’s still a choice about priorities. No one’s against soldiers having proper equipment.

But conflicts are driven by human decisions, not inevitabilities. Military spending isn’t the only way to create safety.

Real security is also healthcare, stability, and functioning services. If billions can be found quickly for defence, it’s fair to ask why that urgency isn’t there elsewhere.

Hyperbole does not help the argument. It’s a miracle I’m still alive given the lack of opportunity to sip water.

There is always time to go to the loo. Please advise your child to look after themselves first as per GMC guidance. Honestly this nonsense line is trotted out so often it does my head in.

Oh and these basic pay figures quoted are for jobs where there is no real responsibility, no night shifts, no real saving lifes. It’s doing GP jobs or maybe psychiatry. Of course these are crucial jobs and can be life-saving, but as a trainee this is really not your role.

Thanks for writing this so I don’t feel I have to!

I’m a consultant now (10 years now) and feel very happy with my pay and conditions. Full time NHS. About 140k. Training was hard at times but I chose my specialty to enable me to raise my family and allow flexibility. I never got any free taxis or accommodation which one PP thinks is standard. I worked hard, but of course I had time for food and a wee during a shift. Apparently we are the only NHS professional to have paid breaks. Though probably the only ones not to consistently take them and be very boundaried about it.

I think we all have a tendency to consider things were ‘harder in our day’, especially medics. But it clearly it was! Across totallly different industries my friends (in our 40s) see a different attitude amongst the current 20 somethings. Entitled. Work shy. Fragile. I supervise some fantastic trainees but there are also plenty of mediocre ones now that we didn’t see before even though I’m with a competitive programme. And that relates to attitude not ability.

Sounds like there are plenty of resident doctors who are not supporting the BMA now so that’s positive. They’ve become an awful organisation. And shaming the profession.

They work insane hours, under intense pressure. Pro rata their pay to an hourly rate and you'll find it's not that great, particularly when you factor in the level of qualifications required and the responsibility that comes with their role.

I was thinking that too.

Two of my DC are Doctors and have partners who are doctors. They all work extremely hard and have shit working conditions. Nights can be brutal and the hours can be crazy. Throw in the fact that they all still seem to be taking (expensive) exams even though they are in their 30’s and having to hustle to complete their specialist training it’s a lot of work for the money. My other two kids do normal ‘professional’ jobs in finance and earn more and work less hours.
I glad that my kids who are Doctors love their work so much.

Nurses are also wonderful people. Deserve better pay too.

Yes we need to keep drs. Not lose them. Pay and conditions here should be very good here if we want the best to stay

In the last trust I worked in staff were not permitted to opt out because the board were terrified that if a patient suffered - or god forbid died - from substandard clinical care and the staff involved had on average been working over 48 hours per week, the trust would get hammered.

But the unions didn't like that...

Is there any way to link increased pay to better patient outcomes (taking into account that in deprived areas they will be worse)? As somebody disabled by decades worth of gaslighting and poor care (mostly from consultants and GPs to be fair but I presume they started developing their crappy attitudes and work ethics as junior doctors), it's very clear there's huge room for improvement, somewhere along the line.

Junior doctors claim they have ADHD to avoid night shifts

From The Telegraph

The doctors that decide to strike have their pay docked for the days they don't come in. NHS managers are going to the wards to check who is in and who isn't.
Those who have mortgages, child care and other financial responsibilities are generally in. Those that also need to log hours of training in (surgical specialties) are also in. Consultants are also working collaboratively and are covering where there are gaps. The inability to make a deal is a political one. The BMA has their agenda and the government has theirs. The aim ultimately shd be to produce capable doctors post cct because the way things are going, I am not sure this will happen.

And yes I know that some weeks they might work more than 48 hours, but legally the hours must average that over the year.

Unless you opt out of the WTD agreement. Which you aren't supposed to be pressured into doing. But what happens when you're trying to progress and everybody else in your team agrees to work more? Plenty of people do feel pressured.

I support them. They could be making well over six figures if they had pursued finance or big law.

My son had a couple of hospital stints (neonatal and then PICU), I recall so clearly some of those faces leaving late in the evening and then being back super early in the morning, probably they just had the time to sleep, eat and have a shower.

The level of personal sacrifice, pressure, mental load, need of ongoing training etc must be unreal.

Doctors as a group got a great deal out of the 2008 contract and it cost the NHS a lot more than expected because the Department of Health couldn't correctly count the full time equivalent number of consultants working in the NHS

It's low in the first two foundation years but quickly progresses.

In those first two years they may have a lot of academic knowledge but not much of a skill set in relative terms

Yes - I know how long it takes to be a consultant as I worked in the NHS for 25 years as a workforce planner.

And yes, I had to pay for parking so why shouldn't doctors? Are they "special"?

I have a regular outpatient appointment at my local eye clinic on Thursday afternoon and I expect to see at least two resident doctors. I'm pretty certain they will have had time to "sip some water and have a lunchbreak" as I usually see them in the canteen before my appointment.

They'll also be sitting down throughout the consultation and not walking 20.000 steps.

Yes - some resident doctors might have a hard job, but by no means all of them do.

After the last pay settlement they are now taking the piss

they do not get overtime unless they are consultants - what are you talking about, yes they do get paid over time as residents.

There is so much utter rubbish about what they do - standing for 12 hrs, no time to pee, drink this is simply not true

In 2008 junior doctors worked 72 hours per week. The average now, after European working time directive,is 48. They can hardly expect to earn the equivalent while working 60% of the hours. (And consequently not being as well trained.)

And yes I know that some weeks they might work more than 48 hours, but legally the hours must average that over the year.

I thought it was hit the hills!

After tax and contributions it's 14 pounds an hour?

What are they complaining about then?

I don't see why people in guaranteed jobs with fat pensions in a profession where people often retire in their 50s are complaining? With a few years seniority they will be on over 100k. Where is the issue?

These people are up to their eyeballs in student debt and they don’t earn enough. They literally have people’s lives in their hands! Give your head a wobble