Child given money by "Vicar" at school

The fact that this person said it 'was just between you and me' would set alarm bells ringing for me. Adults telling children to keep secrets are usually up to no good.

I was referring to the post not being real. Very vague short story detailing the classic tale of clergymen being predators, and has come to MN about it rather than just report it, which would be 99% of other people's first instinct - reeks of ragebait if you ask me.

Which is why I specified, if it is real, and not just ragebait, obviously the school should be informed. I would never assume a child is lying or be doubtful of them when it concerns matters like this.

Adults asking children to keep secrets from other adults is predatory behaviour.

Exactly. So why would your first instinct be to assume it might not be "real", presumably that you think the child might be lying?

I haven’t followed the full line of this debate. But just to say I have never heard of volunteers having to pay for their own DBS in churches. If this is true for this individual then it is definitely not the norm. Our church covers the costs of our volunteers as part of its committment to safer recuitment. Safeguarding basic, foundation and leadership (for example if you are managing other volunteers) plus our own safeguarding training with fire procedures and code of conduct information specific to our place of worship is also all free of charge. Likewise if you volunteer to be a first aider - this cost is covered.
I’d hate people who felt they might like to volunteer being put off by the potential cost. There is a time committment to safer recruitment. But we make no apologies for that. We only want volunteers who are as committed to safeguarding as the rest of us are! Being rich is absolutely not a requirement though.

So your saying that it's the volunteers fault for picking the "wrong" organisation to work/volunteer for in good faith?

They should certainly accept that volunteering at a place notorious for enabling child abuse will require a DBS certificate, of course.

Some police forces have been less than thorough when investigating child sex abuse. Are you saying therefore that no-one should join or work for the police? Sexual abuse can occur in care homes. The Care Quality Commission published a report on this in 2020. Are you saying that no-one should work in a care setting?

Of course I didn't say no one should volunteer at a church, I said they should pay for a DBS check. And of course you would need a DBS check (or the equivalent) to work for the police or in a care home. I'd be extremely concerned if you didn't.

In 2018 an ITV documentary revealed the true extent of sexual abuse at the UK’s boarding schools, with hundreds of people accused of carrying out sexual attacks in recent years and dozens of ongoing police investigations. Are you saying that no-one should volunteer or work for a boarding school?

Again, where are you getting the idea I said no one should work or volunteer at a church? I said you would need a DBS certificate, as you would at a boarding school. Common sense, surely?

And that it's OK for those church volunteers mentioned before to be penalised financially for the nefarious activities of a disturbed few?

If someone is complaining that they're being financially penalised because they're being required to pay £50 for a DBS certificate to work for an organisation that has a long-running history of covering up child abuse, they need to take a long hard look at themselves. Only an incredibly self-obsessed person would think like that.

TBH I think it's you who has skewed priorities.

Why?

OP, I just wanted to say well done to you and your parenting. You’ve clearly been having the right conversations with your DD for her to know that keeping secrets isn’t okay and it’s wonderful that she immediately came to you with her concerns and you took action. Well done to you both!

Yes, that was posted at 10.30 last night, and discussed.

Thursday 2nd.

Yeah, I think school, diocese and local safeguarding number is a belt and braces plan, given it’s the holidays. Even if there’s been a miscommunication (doesn’t sound like it) it’s best to report.

How do you normally contact the teacher? If via dojo then do that as well. Seems odd there is no way of contacting anyone than one email.

Could you give us any more details? What was the situation, and how did he broach it?

@TakeALookAtTheseSwatchesI would also report it immediately to the Diocesan Safeguarding Team. I’m a Parish Safeguarding Officer and while you could theoretically also go to whoever that is in the relevant church, I would advise you bypass them in this case and go directly to the main team. The PSO would have to notify them within 24 hours anyway and this speeds up the process and doesn’t rely on internal church politics, should there be any…not that I would hold any truck with that myself.

My first thouhht too

You could ring your local social services out of hours number, explain the situation, your concerns and they will be able to direct it to wherever it needs to go for investigating. Safeguarding/child protection team and it will be followed up. If no-one from school picks it up, that's another 2 weeks and if this man is grooming children , or worse it is better its dealt with sooner rather than later. If he was simply foolish, unskilled etc then that will come out in the investigation.

So your saying that it's the volunteers fault for picking the "wrong" organisation to work/volunteer for in good faith?

Some police forces have been less than thorough when investigating child sex abuse. Are you saying therefore that no-one should join or work for the police?

Sexual abuse can occur in care homes. The Care Quality Commission published a report on this in 2020. Are you saying that no-one should work in a care setting?

In 2018 an ITV documentary revealed the true extent of sexual abuse at the UK’s boarding schools, with hundreds of people accused of carrying out sexual attacks in recent years and dozens of ongoing police investigations.
Are you saying that no-one should volunteer or work for a boarding school?

And that it's OK for those church volunteers mentioned before to be penalised financially for the nefarious activities of a disturbed few?

TBH I think it's you who has skewed priorities.

Could be seen as sensible.
The precautionary principle.
Take no chances with children's welfare.
It has and is so prevalent in churchy circles.
And others of course.

Yes correct. Theres just a lot of people on this thread expecting the police to wade in and investigate this.

I agree that it should be possible to have a diocesan wide DBs for something like that. However it's not church rules but DBS ones.

But would be done by the relevant designated people in both organisations. Core groups etc .

Well, it's true. If you choose to work and volunteer for an organisation that is infamous for enabling child abuse, and you complain about having to spend £50 on a DBS certificate, your priorities are completely skewed. It's not as though these policies were brought in on a whim - it's a direct response to generations of abuse scandals.

I hear what you're saying, not that Child Protection and Safeguarding is unnecessary bureaucracy, but some of the systems applicable to volunteers are. I'm ok, my enhanced DBS is paid for.
I would agree that a DBS should carry a bellringer or an organist or whatever, to another church or parish.

I’m really sorry you feel this way. Certainly it was commonplace and so much harm was done.
But in the C of E there are now incredibly robust processes in place. I personally have total condfidence in the safeguarding processes or I wouldn’t bring my children to church. I’m also part of our church’s safeguarding team and I know the lengths we go to to ensure that a) no one who we know to have convictions has access to children and b) that volunteers and staff are all trained in what abuse looks like including grooming c) that everyone is confident of how to report concerns and d) that we have processes to remove anyone from access if it should transpire they are not following our safety procedures and code of conduct.

Times have changed a lot. Volunteers spend hours a week on this because we know how very important it is.

No need to be snippy.

The kids lose out because the activities they enjoy may not continue to be offered because the volunteers are subject to additional expenses, not covered by the Diocese.

Look up the Catholic League, or Christian Forums.com. Also search reddit and read people's first-hand reports of how abuse was dealt with within their churches. There are still a lot of Christians out there who believe abuse is not a police matter, and accuse victims who go to the police of betraying the church.

It's actually a morbidly fascinating example of the horseshoe theory of politics - the far right and the far left end up meeting in the middle. There's a small but vocal segment of the far left who want to abolish the police altogether.