Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?

I wasn't intending to return to the thread, but as a final post just wanted to say I'm glad you've revealed your real motivation of being an 'ally'. I hope our Jewish posters take note and are not fooled.
Peace and light to all in these troublesome days 💐

Oh I'm perfectly happy to discuss Pakistan - I've just proved that it's definitely one of the most islamic regimes in the world.

And now that that's been settled, I'm happy to move on because I expect that quite soon people are going to start complaining that talking about ANY countries other than the UK is off topic here - and they would be right.

But if you want to go on about Pakistan, have at it.

Hold up! You've wanged on about Pakistan for hours and now that someone comes back with a counter argument, you want to move the conversation on? Yeah sure ok, that's not how debate works.

It's a lot more than just a muslim majority country - its constitution explicitly forbids laws which go against islam, and even applies certain parts of islamic law to non muslims.

But I think this is a pointless discussion anyway, because neither Pakistan nor Israel are relevant to this subject. It's about Britain.

Pakistan is a Muslim country, no one said it isn't. It is not an Islamic state insofar as it's not a Muslim homeland and does not offer rights on the basis of being Muslim, unlike Israel. I don't know why some posters are so keen to try to deny or deflect away from the very clear fact it's a Jewish state whenever it's behaviour is criticised. Bringing in other completely irrelevant countries to try to counter this fact does nothing.

I've looked this up, because my understanding was that Pakistan was definitely an islamic state, unlike, say Turkey or Bangladesh which were intended to be secular states with a Muslim majority - and I found this:

How “Islamic” is Pakistan’s Constitution?

To sum it up, the Constitution tries very hard to be “Islamic”. In fact, in our index, only two countries (out of more than 40 Muslim majority countries we surveyed) have more “Islamic” constitutions than Pakistan: Saudi Arabia and Iran. Even the other perceivably more “Islamic” Arab states such as the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain and others lag far behind Pakistan in terms of their formal incorporation of Islam into their constitutions. (...) leaving only Saudi Arabia as a more Islamic Sunni state than Pakistan.

So a very different situation to the UK's nominally christian status. The UK's laws do not favour christianity in practice, unlike in Pakistan.

That's a different point: the claim was made that Pakistan is NOT an islamic country. I think we've established that it is. So that's the end of that discussion.

The actual topic here was antisemitism in the UK, so I would say that any discussion of Israel is off topic, because Jews in the UK are not responsible for anything the Israeli government does.

Whereas islamist violence carried out in the UK is clearly related to muslim attitudes in the UK. No matter who it is targeted against.

And how is this relevant to Israel? It's a Jewish state, are you going to try to argue with that? The constant deflecting and whataboutery with bringing in Muslim countries trying to make a parallel (we've had Malaysia, Lebanon, Pakistan in the three pages I've read and I'm sure there has been more) or show that "Israel isn't the worst country" is not only tiring, but completely detracts away from what the thread was supposed to be about. Highlighting your anti-Muslim sentiment does nothing to help with antisemitism.

I've looked this up, because my understanding was that Pakistan was definitely an islamic state, unlike, say Turkey or Bangladesh which were intended to be secular states with a Muslim majority - and I found this:

How “Islamic” is Pakistan’s Constitution?

To sum it up, the Constitution tries very hard to be “Islamic”. In fact, in our index, only two countries (out of more than 40 Muslim majority countries we surveyed) have more “Islamic” constitutions than Pakistan: Saudi Arabia and Iran. Even the other perceivably more “Islamic” Arab states such as the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain and others lag far behind Pakistan in terms of their formal incorporation of Islam into their constitutions. (...) leaving only Saudi Arabia as a more Islamic Sunni state than Pakistan.

So a very different situation to the UK's nominally christian status. The UK's laws do not favour christianity in practice, unlike in Pakistan.

I'm a Muslim and no, Pakistan is not an Islamic state any more than the UK is a Christian state. Your ignorance (and arrogance) is breathtaking. Muslims have no right to enter or reside in Pakistan on the merit of being Muslim, it has no notion of being a homeland and has no special protection for Muslims.

Wrong in so many ways.

First, there are two billion Muslims in the world so that's not a plausible argument. They literally couldn't fit into Pakistan, which in any case is not the birthplace of Islam, whereas Israel is the homeland of Judaism. And there are still not as many Jews in the world as there were before the Shoah - so that too is another reason why wanting a country which could be a refuge for Jews is a reasonable aim. Muslims have dozens of muslim-majority countries to flee to, if ever there really was a determined attempt to exterminate muslims such as happened with the Jews.

And in fact Pakistan was originally founded on the basis of securing a homeland for the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent, not unlike Israel, except without the historic background to justify it.

It is also an Islamic republic: the 1973 constitution, brought in after Pakistan's first ever general elections, declared Pakistan to be an Islamic Republic and Islam to be the state religion. It also stated that all laws would have to be brought into accordance with the injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Quran. Hence non muslim minorities have been arrested for eating in public during Ramadan, and women are forced to have a male guardian and cannot leave the country without permission etc.

But right from Pakistan's beginnings, the president of the Muslim League said that Pakistan would bring together all Muslim countries into a pan-Islamic entity called "Islamistan". He believed that Pakistan was a Muslim state but not yet an Islamic state, and that it could become an Islamic state after bringing all believers of Islam into a single political unit. But they wanted all the land where Muslims lmived - imagine if the Jews had insisted on including Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania? Plus Yemen and Iraq and much of North Africa: that's what Pakistan wanted to do.

More recently, Pakistan bombed a hospital in Kabul, killing unknown numbers - and all of that just gets a shrug in the UK and the west in general.

Proving, I suspect, the OP's argument. Criticising those Islamic rules mentioned above, even in the UK could get you a possible death sentence (the Batley teacher and his family are still in hiding more than 5 years after he dared show a cartoon of Muhammed) but people are free to say whatever they like about Israel - as they should be. But they should also remember that they can say whatever they like about Yahweh without having to hide for the rest of their lives.

I'm a Muslim and no, Pakistan is not an Islamic state any more than the UK is a Christian state. Your ignorance (and arrogance) is breathtaking. Muslims have no right to enter or reside in Pakistan on the merit of being Muslim, it has no notion of being a homeland and has no special protection for Muslims.

As I said above, that wouldn't happen because the person would be decapitated, like that French teacher, or in hiding, like the English one.

So in practice, no, it's only antisemitism where the minority concerned can be both threatened and physically attacked, and yet also expected to put up with those threats while still being nice about it.

Pakistan is not an Islamic state??? Wtaf??? Do you even know why Pakistan was established?? And that its full name is literally "The Islamic Republic of Paksitan' 😂

The ignorance on this thread is breathtaking.

Apologies if another poster has mentioned this already OP but I see that UK Wireless festival has booked Kanye West to headline all three nights. Six months ago him and his entire team/industry were selling nazi memorabilia and merchandise, he was wearing swastika t-shirts and Klan hoods and releasing songs titled “Heil Hitler”. You can apparently do all that and still be embraced with open arms by mainstream festivals and promoters. Completely beggars belief. I see some sponsors and advertisers are starting to pull out. Appalling.

For the record, I think if an equally prominent artist had done the same but against Muslims, they too would still be embraced to headline. It seems society doesn’t give a shit at all about any type of racism whatsoever. No abhorrent views or actions are condemnable anymore apparently.

It is a disgrace that anybody in the Uk in 2026 should have to go into hiding with their family for being accused of religious blasphemy.

Wrong in so many ways.

First, there are two billion Muslims in the world so that's not a plausible argument. They literally couldn't fit into Pakistan, which in any case is not the birthplace of Islam, whereas Israel is the homeland of Judaism. And there are still not as many Jews in the world as there were before the Shoah - so that too is another reason why wanting a country which could be a refuge for Jews is a reasonable aim. Muslims have dozens of muslim-majority countries to flee to, if ever there really was a determined attempt to exterminate muslims such as happened with the Jews.

And in fact Pakistan was originally founded on the basis of securing a homeland for the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent, not unlike Israel, except without the historic background to justify it.

It is also an Islamic republic: the 1973 constitution, brought in after Pakistan's first ever general elections, declared Pakistan to be an Islamic Republic and Islam to be the state religion. It also stated that all laws would have to be brought into accordance with the injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Quran. Hence non muslim minorities have been arrested for eating in public during Ramadan, and women are forced to have a male guardian and cannot leave the country without permission etc.

But right from Pakistan's beginnings, the president of the Muslim League said that Pakistan would bring together all Muslim countries into a pan-Islamic entity called "Islamistan". He believed that Pakistan was a Muslim state but not yet an Islamic state, and that it could become an Islamic state after bringing all believers of Islam into a single political unit. But they wanted all the land where Muslims lmived - imagine if the Jews had insisted on including Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania? Plus Yemen and Iraq and much of North Africa: that's what Pakistan wanted to do.

More recently, Pakistan bombed a hospital in Kabul, killing unknown numbers - and all of that just gets a shrug in the UK and the west in general.

Proving, I suspect, the OP's argument. Criticising those Islamic rules mentioned above, even in the UK could get you a possible death sentence (the Batley teacher and his family are still in hiding more than 5 years after he dared show a cartoon of Muhammed) but people are free to say whatever they like about Israel - as they should be. But they should also remember that they can say whatever they like about Yahweh without having to hide for the rest of their lives.

No one on this thread has called anyone antisemitic to shut down any discussion of Israel. Thats the usual complaint of antisemitism using the camouflage of 'antizionism' to further their racism. Im highly critical of the current Israeli government and often express my views, no one has ever called me an anti semite.

Oh, and BTW, Pakistan's genocide in Bangladesh was a million times worse than anything israel ever did in Gaza. Half a million people killed, almost similar number of women raped.

Never heard anyone ever ask a british Pakistani about that. Despite the fact that, unlike British Jews, British Pakistanis are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from there and many may have taken part in or been complicit in that genocide.

And we never see British Buddhists asked to account for Sri Lanka's genocide against the Tamils or Myanmar's genocide against the Rohingya.

We don't see British Arabs being asked to account for the ongoing horriifc Sudanese genocide (again, far worse than anything that happened in Gaza)

The ummah and the far left seem very selective about who needs to be held to account and for what.

Axel Raducabana, who murdered the girls in Southport was not a Muslim. His parents are evangelical Christians who had been trying to repeatedly get help for his MH problems. But as soon as the attack was reported on there was a huge flurry of right wing activity making accusations about the perpetrator being Muslim...the terrorism literature police found in his possession has also been found with white supremacists (Aryan Nation)

Clearly crazy people who want to inflict mass violence will research activities by a multitude of horrific organisations. But immediately a backlash was felt by the Muslim community and that's why MPs and Starmer expressed solidarity.

Pakistan is not an Islamic state though or homeland for all Muslims. Israel is, a homeland for Jews, so the analogy isn't correct. Israel is synonymous with Jews and the government very much state that. Pakistan does not represent Muslims.
And I agree entirely it's naive for anyone to be surprised why antisemitism has increased outside of Israel. Any minority group are usually held to account or associated with the actions of their group, whether they agree with it or not.

They are attempting to reintroduce blasphemy laws by various means
They flat out refused to even consider banning first cousin marriage
They have been dancing all round the houses to undermine the rape gangs inquiry
Even their comms are very focused towards one community - famously when the terrorist attacked the little girls in the dance class, Starmer was very quick to express public solidarity with Muslims.

I think we need to get the balance and level of public understanding that allows necessary discussion of people with anti Western views and intentions to hurt us, while not unfairly characterising the others.

Pakistan is not an Islamic state though or homeland for all Muslims. Israel is, a homeland for Jews, so the analogy isn't correct. Israel is synonymous with Jews and the government very much state that. Pakistan does not represent Muslims.
And I agree entirely it's naive for anyone to be surprised why antisemitism has increased outside of Israel. Any minority group are usually held to account or associated with the actions of their group, whether they agree with it or not.