Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?

I will always stand with Jews and Israelis. Not because I am, but because Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and Jews look forward to make a better future, rather than clinging to old grudges.

If it's dislike of Israel's actions, why are there attacks on Jewish people who are not in Israel? Why are British children bullied just for being Jewish?
Woman convicted of antisemitic attack outside Jewish secondary school in north London

Jewish man 'kicked like animal' in Golders Green attack

Car driven at Jewish school boys in north London 'religiously aggravated assault'

I do think the press could provide more balanced coverage by showing more of the Jewish groups who've condemned the violence by both israel & hamas.

I have Jewish relatives by marriage & lots if Jewish friends. Most of what I see at the moment in London (often confused with anti semitism) is anti Israel sentiment. This is absolutely not the same thing.

Israel is a political state and dislike of its actions are no reflection of the Jewish people.

And that just shows how desperate Jewish people feel

Antisemitic attacks are going through the roof again and Jewish people are playing the victim. Fuck off.

How do you feel about antisemitism in the Green Party? Recently two Green Party candidates were arrested for hate speech. There are a number of Green Party candidates who have tweeted or retweeted some hateful things. Fortunately they are coming to light.

Would you agree all hatred is wrong?

So the Jewish comminuty has seen a rise in antisemitic attacks ever since they were raped and murdered in an antisemitic attack on October 7th.

Is that what you are confirming?

@Citruswood what you are doing here, which I have touched on upthread, is amateur etymology to 'all lives matter' jew hate.

Language evolved and the evolution here is not recent. I bet you don't go around challenging references to gay people saying that we mean they are happy?

Because someone posted that Jewish communities in the UK have faces a rise in antisemitism since Oct 7th.

What's that got to do with the Jewish community in the UK?

Antisemitism specifically refers to hatred of Jewish people.

Holocaust inversion on a thread about antisemitism. How lovely.

Yes, I'm agreeing that too? What's differing?

I'm not. I'm agreeing its the fault of the governance Hamas in Gaza and in the West Bank their governance.

Absolutely. We’re making the same point?

The responsibility to form a stable state falls to the government not the civilians.

Hamas (and Fatah) are bad, shouldn’t be in power & are harming their own citizens with their actions. I don’t think any of that was up for debate. You seem to think I’m saying it’s not Hamas’ fault they’re in this situation - despite me having said noting of the sort.

The point is that if their leaders bothered to actually sort themselves out over the last 80 years instead of hating the neighbour, things would be massively different for them today. Its always soneone ekses fault. Lots of their problems are of the making of their pathetic, hate filled leaders. They could have and should have made better choices. They continued to make choices that ultimately harmed their own citizens, many of those leaders also took billions and squirreled it away in Qatar. Is that stolen money still there, maybe use it to rebuild.

Both…

what point do you think that makes? That’s their bad governments? Of course they are, was that up for debate?

Who's problem is that there isn't a unified political system, Hamas or Fatah or both. They should have sorted themselves out, concentrated their efforts on that.

You’ve essentially taken footage of some individuals celebrating and used that to make a claim about an entire population. That doesn’t logically follow.

I’ve seen people in the UK cheering violence against migrants in the Channel. Does that mean British civilians collectively support migrants drowning? Of course not. We understand that individuals acting in a crowd, especially in moments of anger or propaganda, do not represent an entire population.

The same applies here. You can absolutely find Palestinians who support Hamas, just as you can find Israelis who support their government’s actions or Israelis who oppose them. None of that translates into collective responsibility for millions of people.

And it’s also important to remember that roughly half of Gaza’s population are children, who have no political agency at all. So even if you believe some adults support Hamas, that cannot reasonably be extended to the whole population.

I don’t accept the idea that civilian populations become collectively responsible for the actions of armed groups within them. An innocent Palestinian life is not worth less than an innocent Israeli life. That principle has to hold consistently, even in conflict.

How did the Palestinian zionists organzie themselves to have a state?

Of course its a simplification and not the only factor. But one of the reasons why there is no Palestinian state is that they have not put in the necessary tine and effort to building the institutions of state. The Palestinian zionists had basically a shadow state under the ottomans and then the British and self.organzied - that's why they were good to go in 1948. A bit like the Indian national Congress at the same time - because they were focused on building a state too.

Yes, Palestinian society should most certainly do a reckoning and decide to focus on building their state rather than destroying Israel, it hasn't done them much good over the last 80 odd years. Israel is not going away and the refugees will not be returning to Israel but to the new state of palestine. Accept that reality and demonstrate that any new state wont be an iranian vassal or the new isis.

I can totally separate Palestinians from hamas but they are the ones who support it and do not wish to reach a peace agreement with Israel. Thats what the polls show. They honestly believe that if tbey just stick it out, they'll win. ⁰

"To be clear, my view that Palestinian civilians aren’t responsible for the actions of their governing authorities is not an endorsement of Hamas."

I saw plenty of "Palestinian civilians" lining the streets, whooping and cheering the raped dead body of a teenage music festival goer.

The rot goes deeper than those few Hamas leaders.

The idea that Palestinians “should just get themselves together” oversimplifies a situation where the basic conditions for stable state building aren’t in place. You can’t really compare it to a normal country slowly improving over time because Palestinians don’t have full sovereignty, unified territoryor consistent control over borders, movement and security. And governance is still split between the West Bank under the PA & Gaza under Hamas. On top of that repeated conflict, economic restrictions and institutional disruption make long term stable governance extremely difficult. So the issue isn’t a lack of willingness or “organisation,” but a fragmented political system operating under conditions that would undermine effective state building anywhere.

The argument you seem to be putting forward is that Palestinians are collectively responsible for the lack of a functioning independent state and that they can’t be meaningfully separated from the actions of Hamas. If that’s the case, I disagree, and I don’t think the conversation is going to progress further on that basis. To be clear, my view that Palestinian civilians aren’t responsible for the actions of their governing authorities is not an endorsement of Hamas.

Of course irs a low bar, Gaza is governed by a literal terror organisation. I’m not putting it out as a utopia