Vet advice… AIBU about costs.

Your vet said it was a specialist referral. We had one many years ago to a neurologist and although it was £250 just for the consultation they didn’t actually push for diagnostic tests like an MRI and said we should wait and see for a couple of days which was the right call.

I still would say no in your shoes if it was my dog BUT if you wanted to get a second opinion and felt strong enough to say no if you felt it wasn’t in their best interests it might be worth just having a consult so you know in your heart that you had considered everything and weighed up quality versus quantity of life.

Many years ago, soon after I’d had a year of surgery, chemo and radiotherapy, one of my cats had kidney failure, aged 14-15. At the vets’ suggestion I gave him a raft of daily medication and spent around £1000 to buy him another three months of reasonable normality.

My teenagers were glad I’d “given him a chance” but I wish I hadn’t prolonged things, and wouldn’t do it again.

It’s really tough being responsible at the end of a treasured pet’s life.

We decided not to investigate when our small wobbly dog started throwing up blood.

He'd had several vestibular attacks and bounced back but he was 17, he was blind, he was stiff and struggling with some positions, occasionally having accidents when a wee snuck up on him - he was still himself, still a stubborn old git, still determined after heaving up a stomach full of blood that he was having breakfast and going to find a toy to squeak incessantly... I didn't want to reach a point where he wasn't 'him'.

We decided, with our vet who has known him since he was 6, that any investigation that would give us answers would be too invasive for him, and the answers we were potentially getting would involve further invasive stuff or a 'nothing more we can do' here answer... So we let him go with a mouth full of chocolate biscuits.

Money really didn't come into it, I have a credit card with a 15K limit, theres a few K in the savings account, but I always keep in mind 'just because we CAN, doesn't mean we should'.

I am sorry you're going through this, its so hard when we know them so well, particularly if they're the determined 'TIS BUT A FLESH WOUND' types as my old boy was.

11 is a good age for a large breed dog. As she has a tumour and seizures it’s time to say goodbye.

I’m sorry about your dog.

As a human with progressive myoclonic seizures (and progressing to. tonic clinic), I would definitely prefer to have a peaceful death without treatment. We can afford our pets that dignity and I think it’s a gift you would be giving her, and you should see it like that.

obviously im a human not a dog so probably not useful advice at all, but that’s how I would see it. You’d be being kind to your dog, it’s a positive for her (of course very upsetting for you and I don’t want to minimise that)

Ridiculous , our late dog had high blood pressure on various medications and was diagnosed with a splenic tumour ( he was scanned to look at his adrenal glands primarily) , we declined surgery as the prognosis for the worst case tumour would have been only a few months even with surgery , at that point he was still insured so it wasn’t even a monetary decision . He lived for another 18 months until he had a catastrophic stroke ( which I also declined to treat ) . Sometimes , however much we love our animals you need to be realistic .

For an 11 year old large breed dog diagnosis isn’t very likely to change the outcome. It’s bound to make you feel guilty if you’re given an opinion and decide against it. The vet’s laying everything out for you to decide which is what they should do but not always what you need. A couple of years ago one of my horses fractured his shoulder and the vet initially said it could possibly be catastrophic but an option to try was complete rest and pain relief and revisit later in the week, spoke with someone else later that day and they said no at the horses age it couldn’t heal and they would come straight away to put him down. It was such a relief that the second person gave a strong opinion as although the initial vet did everything right I felt I would be denying my horse the chance of a few more years if we didn’t try and that would have been the wrong decision. It’s so difficult, especially when they are still continuing with some of their normal behaviours. I found it helpful to keep a record of good and bad days with our old dog, when you look at it in black and white it can help you judge how they are doing without leaning into emotions. I hope you and your dog have some lovely quality time together ❤️

I've got an older cocker spaniel who last year was diagnosed with mitral valve disease. I had briefly changed vets who wanted £1700 for testing etc but was so devastated, I thankfully went back to our original vets who had a good listen to his heart and all over check up. She told me he was 12, he had a grade 5 murmur, and whatever tests they did wasn't going to change that. So she did a simple scan at the surgery with some bloods, all under sedation rather than GA and the bill was under £500. He's now on a low dose medication and has got a great quality of life for now but I know that will change. At his last check up, she said to me he'll die with heart disease rather than because of it - his arthritis is more likely to see him off.

I wouldn't put a dog through all of that knowing they've had a good innings. I'd ask about medication that may help but nothing more.

Don't panic about what the vet said, they are just offering you options.

I'd sit and have a think about a few things.

Quality of life for DDog now. And in a few months time.
Quality of life for you now. And in a few months time.

Is it likely the seizures will worsen and damage her brain? Have they said anything about that? Or about what to do in the event that a seizure doesn't stop?

Is she coping at present? Are the seizures leaving her distressed?

What level of risk is there with the anaesthetic for her in her current condition? Will she tolerate this?

If she's given a diagnosis, what is the prognosis? What is the treatment? Is the treatment one you can afford? Or one that you're prepared to put her through ie side effects of it?

We lost our beautiful dog to sudden liver failure a few years ago now and they wanted her to go up to a specialist vet several counties away for a liver biopsy. But even if they knew the cause of the failure it was vanishingly unlikely they could actually do anything about it. This was a dog they knew couldn't make 1/4mile in a car journey without vomiting - how could I put her through a 3+hr trip in a car before doing all that to her for no gain? We refused the biopsy, they gave her some steroids and we allowed her a couple of days of anything she wanted (McDonald's chicken nuggets for the win!) before she was put to sleep.

Sometimes, the dogs are telling us when they've had enough. My girl was telling me with every step she tried to take that she was exhausted and couldn't function any more.

Bluntly, I'd put her to sleep. It seems likely there is a serious underlying cause (which you wouldn't want to treat due to operative risks, lack of clear benefit & costs) and the dog is having frequent collapses with risk of injury. If she's struggling to get on and off a sofa it sounds like now is the time to let go - before she starts getting injured or being incontinent for a start.

Is there any way they could offer treatment without the scans? Most vets know, with a fair amount of certainty, what is going on without confirmation scans. There may be restrictions around their ability to medicate, though, until confirmation. I'm not sure. Might not hurt to ask. I am sorry you're going through this...it's hard to know when we're being fleeced, doing too much, not doing enough, being proactive, being selfish, sensible etc.

I know you're doing your best with everything available to you x

Age aside, what would be the outcome of the scans? Would there be an improvement of quality of life, however long it lasts, or just a confirmation diagnosis?

If there is no treatment for whatever diagnosis, what would be the point of the scans? If there is treatment, is it going to improve quality of life, cure the condition or prolong suffering?

I think I'd be asking these questions and then deciding on how to proceed.

This, in spades.

Also, what difference would a diagnosis make? If it is being caused by a tumour and surgery is the answer, would you put an 11 year old large breed dog through that? She probably wouldn't survive it and die on the table. I have an 18 year old pony who recently went through surgery. The rehabilitation was harder on him than the surgery and if anything else happens, I won't put him through another one. You really have to think if spending all this money on a diagnoses is really going to be worth it, or are you just spending thousands getting an answer as to what exactly is making your elderly dog go downhill. We cannot stave off death by treating every ailment.

As to why your vet has changed his mind, does he work for a corporation? Has someone put pressure on him to make more money from you? Because I cannot think why he would do a u turn like this.

My DD has a beautiful 15 year old Golden Retriever. A great age for this breed according to the vet. He has good quality of life. Enjoys a sedate walk. On fact trots off in the opposite direction like a puppy if DD seems his walk is long enough for his age and wants to bring him back before he thinks he's ready. 😄 She is insured and has a very good vet who has prescribed half a paracetamol morning and evening for his arthritis and he takes other drugs bought on line to help with this as well. Noth the vet and dd agree that other slight symptoms he now has they will 'leave well alone'. As the vet says ...he has had a marvellous life and, at his age he will be fine until he's not fine and 'you will know'. He is enjoying a happy, contented old age and, in general, I think this is the best approach for very old dogs 🦮♥️

Modern medicine and especially veterinary medicine have made such huge advances.Vet probably feels obligated to tell you every possibility of treatment. Personally I believe that just because they can do it doesn't mean that they should . I feel the same regarding humans . Once an animal is not enjoying good quality of life and able to do the things that brought them happiness it is time to let them go . It's our selfish desire to keep them around for us . Animals don't fear death as we do . And why put them through any pain or distress unnecessarily when the outcome will be the same.

Your vet should give you all the options including expensive diagnostic tests but that doesn’t mean you should do them and often they aren’t actually saying that it’s the best option but they have to give you the choice. We are managing a chronic condition and two different vets have said ‘obviously I need to tell you about this operation that could be done etc’ when it is clear from me that it is a no and it’s obvious reading between the lines that they also don’t think it’s the right thing but it’s also right that they mention it incase it was something I wanted to do.

This. The best is not measured in £££.

Treat the symptoms. Let the last phase of your beloved dog’s life be as comfortable as possible, and when the time comes you will know you have given her the best you could.

Has your vet seen a video of the event?

When my ddog started peeing specs of bloody vet suggested bladder cancer and a referral to The Big Clinic. Starting point £3200 for scans etc or an exploratory op for 300 at the vet she knew.. Opted for the op which unfortunately didn't show anything although blood work hinted at cancer.. Ddog was 11. Prescribed pills to slow down any growth. She got another 18 months before it spread to her bones (back leg was withering away) she managed well and was well in herself for a while. Then The Time came and she was pts... Living in jam and bread to cover huge bill simply wasn't an option.. Ddog was well loved and I have no guilt we didn't go ott with treatment..