Vet advice… AIBU about costs.

OP are there other vet practices near you. Remember you can register at a new vet anytime. It would concern me that they are not prepared to do anything without a very expensive scan. I am always one to back a vet as I think they get a hard time on here and in RL as I fully accept vet care comes at a cost and isn’t like the NHS for humans but equally I would be happy to get another opinion or move vets if I felt pushed in a direction I thought wasn’t best for my dog.

It's very odd that they won't offer anything without scans
Our vets would have treated the seizures but said the side effects probably weren't worth it
She did have daily pain relief (Arthrocam (?)in case she was in any pain

Pet insurance now means owners are expected to pursue all avenues to treat old and sick animals, and programmes like Super Vet suggest that there are no hopeless cases. In reality I don't think this does pets or owners any favours in the long run. You love your dog and have given her a wonderful life. Do what you believe to be in her interests, which doesn't have to mean taking every course of action the vet profession can offer. You clearly have a good sense of proportion and understand the importance of quality over length of a dog's life. Trust your instincts and back yourself to make the right decision, irrespective of what the vet industry offers.

Honestly, when my time comes I’d like to go like my last cat and dog. Still feeling okay much of the time but struggling a bit and feeling that this is not going to get better….. in my bed, drifting away after a good day filled with love and with my loved ones holding me…

I wouldn’t put a large breed 11yo dog through this for that sort of money. Realistically what’s the treatment going to be and what side effects would there be and how much time would it buy?

and I say this as someone who just spent nearly 2k on a 12yo dog with an acute out of hours event.

id concentrate on pain relief and quality of life.

I’m very grateful to say that my local vets have always been very understanding when my animals needed to be PTS. Even one that I called as an emergency and had never been to before, just did it first thing in the morning after I booked with no fuss at all and great kindness.

I’m eternally grateful for that: it had to be done and it was obvious it had to be done but it was no issue. They were so good that I changed the practice to them because they were nearer.

I have never had any problem and I’ve always been able to talk openly and frankly about timescales and identifying the right moment. I appreciate this is not everyone’s experience but I do have to record here that it has been mine.

This. ^ @MyFairLady22 As has been said, vet practices push and push and PUSH you to get 1000s and 1000s of pounds worth of treatment for your dog or cat, even if they are 90-95% of the way through their life, and very VERY poorly.

We had an 18 year old cat who had arthritis, kidney and liver issues, a heart murmuration, and an underactive thyroid. She was also 80% deaf, and developing cataracts. She had plodded along for a year to a year and a half with her arthritis (with YouMove) her hearing almost gone, and her eyesight waning, (down to 50% or so,) and she had a mass near her stomach that had been spotted a month earlier, but she suddenly went downhill over a few DAYS and lost the will to live, shortly after her 18th birthday.

She wouldn't even look at us she refused to be held or picked up, she faced the wall, and she had just checked out. She was done. She knew it. We knew it.

We took her to the vet with the intention of PTS, and the vet gave us about 10 different options of things we could do for her, including having her taken away to a clinic for a week or two for 'tests.' If we had gone ahead and said yes, we would have had a bill for around £9K to £10K. And that was just for starters!

We were like ' 'errr actually, we don't want to put her through that. She's a very old lady, and she has multiple things wrong with her, and she is really suffering. We want to choose euthanasia.' She said 'OK, that's fine, that is the kindest thing to do, and she is very old...' We thought 'why on earth suggest all this bloody treatment then?!'

I agree, it is about making money. But it is often not the fault of the individual veterinary surgeon. I feel sorry for them, but it's an absolute disgrace how the companies fleece people now. Some people might think they have no option other than forking out 1000s and 1000s of £££! Some people have nearly bankrupted themselves paying exhorbitant vet bills, only to have their pet die 6-8 months later anyway! (Because they were very old!) There is very little care or thought for the welfare of the animal, or the owner. It's all about the £££££!

@MyFairLady22 I would PTS at this point, (well soon-ish anyway, when you think doggo is suffering.) She is gorgeous by the way! 😍

This says it all. Your dog is a very good age for a large breed. Just give the best you can for us long as you can, but don't pursue investigations - why put your beloved animal through the trauma?

We had our dog PTS recently, she was 10.
diagnosed with a probable brain tumour last summer - had what they called resting seizures
We could have had a scan (4 grand)
We didn't, we just keep her comfortable and happy for as long as we could And I would do that again

Time to let go op. ❤️

Our ten year old lab had an accident a couple of years ago where she damaged a disc in her spine. It wasn’t age related but is a common injury in labs because they are not brilliant at risk assessment and happily run into solid objects in the pursuit of tennis bslls.
Fortunately she was and still is insured so tests, treatment and rehab were covered.
She recovered about 90% of function with just a little neurological lameness in one back leg that gave her a bit of a peg leg limp.

Just before Christmas she had what appeared to be a stroke, she was wobbly, couldn’t stand up for long and stopped going upstairs or jumping on furniture. A couple of trips to the vet didn’t throw any light on it but she did improve slightly with painkillers.

The vet referred us back to the neurologist who treated her spinal injury. They too were not sure. Provisional diagnosis was tumour, heart disease or back problem. But since she had no real neurological symptoms apart from the pre existing lameness they thought that back pain was low probability.

She underwent CT scan and other tests and the vet rang us and was very happy to tell us it was actually her back. She had some age related changes/ calcification around some of the vertebrae but the cause was a slipped/bulging disc. He said that her existing deficits had masked the classic presentation and it was quite mild but looked worse because of the limp.

She had a big steroid injection and a month of painkillers and crate rest. Since we’d been through the spinal rehab before we were familiar with how long it can take. The previous injury required intense physio from the start. The IVDD (slipped disc) needs complete rest for four weeks then very slow return to normal. She is now back doing hydrotherapy which she loves. And is pretty much back to where she was.

There is a high risk of it relapsing and her needing another steroid injection but we will wait and see.

The problem you have OP is the astronomical cost of an MRI or CT to make a definitive diagnosis. If we hadn’t had insurance we would have been in a position to fund it and even with insurance, because of her age we have to pay 20% of the cost. We do get funding for the hydrotherapy so overall I am expecting to pay around £1000 in total out of the £5000 it will cost us.

Unfortunately they made an incidental finding on the CT suggesting she may have another chronic condition but because she has no clinical symptoms we have made the decision to wait and see. Because she’s an older dog she may well reach a decent age before symptoms develop but the condition increases the risk of a stroke so the decision may be made for us if it progresses.

As a result we no longer let her exercise off lead, which is sad but she is still enjoying life and is not in pain. It was really distressing when I found her in the garden collapsed due to the pain from the bulging disc and it’s a small price to pay to prevent it recurring.

A consultation with the neurologist will cost around £200-300, they won’t insist on treatment but on examination may be able to pin down what is going on. Then you can make a sensible decision. Even if it’s an easy diagnosis the treatment/drugs required may be expensive.

Our dog is doing fine again so it was the right decision to investigate and treat but had she been closer to her maximum age. 14-16, we may have consider a different course of action. She’s relatively middle aged and still looks like a 4 yr old but if she’d been struggling prior to her accident our decision would have been different. If she’d been more middle aged in her behaviour she probably wouldn’t have run into the solid object in the first place.

I am sorry that is your experience. Normally one treats for the treatable, mitigates any clinical signs as best one can etc.
No vet refuses to give pain relief

Please don’t think I’m being heartless, but you’ve got to know when to stop.

A different scenario, but I always remember my friends lovely dog, a big Irish wolf hound that had cancer in its leg.

It was only a matter of time, but the vet suggested amputation, which they did because they loved the dog, but the dog hated it and could hardly get up on three legs being so big and old.

It was actually cruel, and horrible to watch. It died less than six months later because the cancer had of course spread.

The vet made a lot of money out of their heart ache, and prolonged the poor dog suffering.

It’s not unique and I know someone else who ended up spending nearly £10k on a 14 year west highland terrier.

You know your dog. If her quality of life is deteriorating it’s time to let her go.

With our first lab, we followed the vet’s recommendation of chemotherapy, but it is something I will always regret, and I am so glad that we let her successor go in good time. Instead of a midnight dash to the animal hospital, needing oxygen and having to be euthanised in an unfamiliar place, our second dog was put to sleep in our home, on her bed, surrounded by her family.

I know this is hard… 💐

Agree,I absolutely adore my little girl,but I would keep her safe ,loved and pain free. X

Re the vets change of stance, they often aren’t allowed to suggest pts and are obliged to push diagnostics and treatment to generate revenue. I had the same when my cat was very ill and we found a tumour in a place that couldn’t be operated on. The vet suggested tests and I said no pts now please, he is suffering. She looked so relived and agreed with me 100%. I just don’t think she was allowed to suggest it first.
She is your dog and you know the hard decision is the kind one. No anaesthetics or lumbar punctures, just cuddles and love until it’s goodbye.

Don’t do it. You will second thousands and maybe only have her for a few months or even weeks. Keep your DD comfortable until the time comes to say goodbye. This might be soon but so be it. You have loved her and given her a wonderful life. Now her quality of life is very poor and prolonging it will prolong her suffering. I think from your post you know this is right but you just need a bit of support. You are doing the right thing. Just tell you vet your decision and I’m sure they’ll support you.
ETA pts immediately would not be the right thing to do if they can’t treat symptoms and your DD is fitting.

It was only a suggestion by the vet as they are obliged to cover the options with you. I'd say no thanks. What you CAN do and what you OUGHT to do are not necessarily the same thing.

Pain relief for neck pain
Keppra for myoclonus

We’ve been through this recently. We were insured so it didn’t come down to money (which made it easier to feel better about our choices as we didn’t need to feel like we were doing it due to finances, even though that’s also very reasonable).
Dog was a good age for her breed. She had a grade 3 cancerous lump removed in the summer, they wanted to scan to see how far it had progressed but she really struggled with recovery so we said we wouldn’t put her through further surgery no matter what, so turned down the scans as it wouldnt change the treatment.
She then started to lose use of her back end and eventually bowel control. Again they offered scans, but we declined as it wouldn’t change the treatment.
We made them as comfortable as possible until we decided we were keeping them here for us and not them. In the end, I’m very glad we didn’t keep them having lots of scans and treatments.

My dog is 5 we just paid 1k for investigations (which we will get £800 back on ins) he’s got hip dysplasia. Had he been 11 i wouldn’t have put him through expensive invasive investigations.
it does feel like sometimes with the vets it’s money over quality of life