Page 3 | AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

LovelyBranches · 2026-03-25T21:29:38+00:00

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod. Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it. Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently. I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4. AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

MagpiePi · 27/03/2026 11:41

Ginagogo · 26/03/2026 19:34

I agree. I find that pretty horrible to exclude only 3 children, that would hurt me as an adult never mind at 9

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But if you go for an audition, then you know there will be a chance you are not chosen.

They didn’t just announce who would be in the choir, they gave the children a chance to compete for a place. The OPs daughter didn’t have to go for the audition, she chose to. She wasn’t excluded for some arbitrary or cruel reason; she just didn’t perform to the requirements they were looking for.

Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 11:19

TheJoyousHiker · 27/03/2026 11:17

I think you need to talk to the school about this. Honestly, leaving three children out of 20 out is very unfair. It means they are being isolated from the rest of their class, especially if practicing taking place most lunchtimes. It’s exclusion.

I have emailed, they haven’t replied. I also mentioned it to DD’s class teacher that she’s alone and she told me to email the choir teachers.

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Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 11:17

JumpinJellyfish · 27/03/2026 11:12

@LovelyBranches youve ignored my posts where I asked you about whether your DD was really “alone” at lunchtimes, since your OP says that actually she sat with another girl (so it’s not just football playing boys who aren’t in the choir).

You are changing your story to support your position. The reality is that the decision has absolutely nothing to do with your DD’s disability and all this is a complete red herring. It’s not helpful to your DD to make everything about her disability, or to encourage her to see discrimination where there is none.

Sorry I don’t mean to ignore, there’s a lot of messages.

My DD did move over to finish her lunch with a girl from her class. This child has been mean to DD recently so it wasn’t something she wanted to do. When outside this girl did something else and excluded my dd again so she was alone in the yard. The other girl has never been involved in the choir and is an athletic child who often has permission from the school to miss days and leave early to compete in her sport.

Yesterday DD kind of hung around other kids who are younger than her but she felt out of place and upset.

OP posts:

TheJoyousHiker · 27/03/2026 11:17

I think you need to talk to the school about this. Honestly, leaving three children out of 20 out is very unfair. It means they are being isolated from the rest of their class, especially if practicing taking place most lunchtimes. It’s exclusion.

JumpinJellyfish · 27/03/2026 11:12

@LovelyBranches youve ignored my posts where I asked you about whether your DD was really “alone” at lunchtimes, since your OP says that actually she sat with another girl (so it’s not just football playing boys who aren’t in the choir).

You are changing your story to support your position. The reality is that the decision has absolutely nothing to do with your DD’s disability and all this is a complete red herring. It’s not helpful to your DD to make everything about her disability, or to encourage her to see discrimination where there is none.

Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 11:05

Hereforthecommentz · 27/03/2026 10:55

It's a life lesson sometimes you get beat. My dd does athletics, she can't win every race they have to learn and motivate to try harder and learn to deal with disappointment. I see some parents complain to officials, it's so embarrassing they can't accept their child got beat this time. It's a real poor example to thier kids. Think of all the free lunch times she will have, sell it as a positive.

Reframing it as a positive from your perspective doesn’t make it a positive from my DD’s perspective. My DD is 9 and the thing she loves to do most are singing and being with her friends. This decision stops both of those options.

More than that, it means she is alone at lunchtime, the other children that don’t do choir are mainly boys who prefer to play football. Football is neither accessible nor appealing to my DD so her only option is to stay alone, and yesterday the choir practices 4 times in the day meaning that DD was alone most of the day.

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Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 11:02

Kirbert2 · 27/03/2026 10:26

My son can't do sports either due to a disability and he has no interest in accessible sports because he simply wants to join the local team with his mates and unfortunately that isn't possible. That's the reality of his disability and he does need to come to terms with that and I'm sure he will, with time.

Accessible sports/groups aren't always the solution.

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I agree, there’s a lot more work needed to make the mainstream accessible too

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Hereforthecommentz · 27/03/2026 10:55

It's a life lesson sometimes you get beat. My dd does athletics, she can't win every race they have to learn and motivate to try harder and learn to deal with disappointment. I see some parents complain to officials, it's so embarrassing they can't accept their child got beat this time. It's a real poor example to thier kids. Think of all the free lunch times she will have, sell it as a positive.

Kirbert2 · 27/03/2026 10:26

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 09:35

I read this and have deeply reflected on it. Unfortunately I disagree with you entirely. I know exactly what it’s like to have children who have multiple operations, to have visible differences, to have people staring and asking questions.

You asked what you are supposed to do to help your child feel good about themselves and here’s where we differ-I believe in the social model of disability, you seem to have a very medical model of disability.

I believe (and the law supports this view largely) that access should be given to disabled people. So I fight for it. There have obviously been limitations (can’t go swimming when wearing plaster casts post op for example) but if my children wanted to climb pen y fan I’d try my best to find a way of getting them up there-I wouldn’t gently redirect. I don’t believe that their lives should be defined by their disability or made smaller.

It is my job to believe in my DC, to absorb the awfulness of putting them through operations (we’ve been through a similar number and due another soon) and allow them a life where what they want is possible. It’s also my job to educate anyone else in their life that believes otherwise.

I will not have my DD sitting alone at lunchtime and feeling left out. I can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.

There will always be Disabled people in the world, many of us will become Disabled in life. Access must be a shared problem that we all consider on a daily basis. So if your son likes sports find accessible groups-find a way of including him rather than telling him he can’t do something.

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My son can't do sports either due to a disability and he has no interest in accessible sports because he simply wants to join the local team with his mates and unfortunately that isn't possible. That's the reality of his disability and he does need to come to terms with that and I'm sure he will, with time.

Accessible sports/groups aren't always the solution.

StationJack · 27/03/2026 10:24

The Urdd is great. I was a member and went to the local Aelwyd (club), along with my friends and kids from nearby villages, and we did various fun activities including going camping at Llangrannog and boating on Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake). I sang (badly) in choirs and I don't think we got very far.

The Aelwyd was set up by two teachers from the village, and I am grateful for what they did.

Newname29 · 27/03/2026 10:23

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 10:03

That’s not what the social model of disability is at all.

The social model sees Disability as a community problem caused by societal barriers. The goal is to remove those barriers.

It does not mean treat everyone in exactly the same way.

The argument about someone getting access based on their needs vs merit is a false one. Many disabled people are denied access to things because of their disability stops others from seeing their merits. By removing the barriers it allows disabled people a level playing field to demonstrate their merits, not to get an undeserved space.

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I know what the model is and I agree with that model. I was just saying if you believe society should adapt do you also believe people with extra needs shouldn't be accepted on to something just because they have a disability?

Because it's coming across like you think just because your child can't play sports that automatically they should be in the choir if they can hold a tune?

As alresdy said, I have a child with extra needs and would hate to think they are a sympathy choice. I would like them to get picked for something on their own merit.

Upsetting as it is OP, your child wasnt picked. You need to help them get over it now and enlist the school in helping them to make more friends. If you feel the process was unfair by all means raise it with the school and hopefully they will take it on bosrs. But I think you need to support your daughter to move on from this disappointment.

Happytaytos · 27/03/2026 10:17

I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.

What part of the process are you not happy with?

Quite frankly teachers are too flipping busy to consider the lunch time consequences of a choir. It's one hell of a reach that teachers should think about every possible consequence ever.

I think you need to play this down and encourage new friendships for your DD.

Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 10:06

StationJack · 27/03/2026 10:02

The clarification was for the benefit of other MNers, @FunkyFringe . To me, and probably many others, the “National Eisteddfod” is the Eisteddfod Genedlaethol. The Urdd national eisteddfod is usually referred to as "Eisteddfod yr Urdd".

As you say In Welsh, we say “y cylch, y sir a’r genedlaethol” (the local, county and national) in school. Pupils say “rydan ni wedi mynd trwodd i’r genedlaethol” when they win at county level.. They don't say 'Rydan ni'n mynd i'r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol.'

Cytuno

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Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 10:05

PoppinjayPolly · 27/03/2026 10:02

can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.
if your daughter had got in and others hadn’t would you have same belief? Would you have held a stand of her not being in the choir to be with her friend who didn’t ?
do you believe the process of the completion she won was fair?

I believe I would have. I have past history of fighting for access for others to things that don’t include me

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Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 10:03

Newname29 · 27/03/2026 09:56

If you believe in the social model of disability then surely you believe that your child shouldn't be treated any differently to other kids because they have a disability. So if they aren't good enough for the choir it's because their voice isn't good enough and you need to accept this.

By all means if she is feeling lonely during break this needs to be addressed and perhaps the teacher can ensure that she is interacting with other kids.

I have a child with extra needs and she hasn't gotten picked for various things in her life. I would absolutely hate if she got chosen for things because she has extra needs. Its disingenuous. She has found an activity she absolutely shines in and we encourage this but even in that activity sometimes she doesn't get the role/part she wants because someone else is better.

Show quote history

That’s not what the social model of disability is at all.

The social model sees Disability as a community problem caused by societal barriers. The goal is to remove those barriers.

It does not mean treat everyone in exactly the same way.

The argument about someone getting access based on their needs vs merit is a false one. Many disabled people are denied access to things because of their disability stops others from seeing their merits. By removing the barriers it allows disabled people a level playing field to demonstrate their merits, not to get an undeserved space.

OP posts:

StationJack · 27/03/2026 10:02

The clarification was for the benefit of other MNers, @FunkyFringe . To me, and probably many others, the “National Eisteddfod” is the Eisteddfod Genedlaethol. The Urdd national eisteddfod is usually referred to as "Eisteddfod yr Urdd".

As you say In Welsh, we say “y cylch, y sir a’r genedlaethol” (the local, county and national) in school. Pupils say “rydan ni wedi mynd trwodd i’r genedlaethol” when they win at county level.. They don't say 'Rydan ni'n mynd i'r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol.'

PoppinjayPolly · 27/03/2026 10:02

can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.
if your daughter had got in and others hadn’t would you have same belief? Would you have held a stand of her not being in the choir to be with her friend who didn’t ?
do you believe the process of the completion she won was fair?

BananaPeels · 27/03/2026 10:01

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 09:54

That’s not my DD’s reality. In her school the boys very much play football and the girls play netball. I have tried to encourage her to like football but she doesn’t. She fell asleep watching the Wales game last night (it was on quite late but she was bored

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I found the boys just don’t like doing sport with the girls. In PE it was fine when monitored by a teacher but in play time, they just wouldn’t pass to her so she didn’t bother. The boys absolutely would not have played netball. So much so the school didn’t play it at all and basketball hoops installed so it was ‘inclusive’ to all. I know people like to believe in this utopia where girls and boys play happily together and no one cares but it was absolutely not my experience when my children were at primary school. There was certainly some integration at play times for sure, but mostly the girls and the boys did their own things.

Newname29 · 27/03/2026 09:56

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 09:35

I read this and have deeply reflected on it. Unfortunately I disagree with you entirely. I know exactly what it’s like to have children who have multiple operations, to have visible differences, to have people staring and asking questions.

You asked what you are supposed to do to help your child feel good about themselves and here’s where we differ-I believe in the social model of disability, you seem to have a very medical model of disability.

I believe (and the law supports this view largely) that access should be given to disabled people. So I fight for it. There have obviously been limitations (can’t go swimming when wearing plaster casts post op for example) but if my children wanted to climb pen y fan I’d try my best to find a way of getting them up there-I wouldn’t gently redirect. I don’t believe that their lives should be defined by their disability or made smaller.

It is my job to believe in my DC, to absorb the awfulness of putting them through operations (we’ve been through a similar number and due another soon) and allow them a life where what they want is possible. It’s also my job to educate anyone else in their life that believes otherwise.

I will not have my DD sitting alone at lunchtime and feeling left out. I can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.

There will always be Disabled people in the world, many of us will become Disabled in life. Access must be a shared problem that we all consider on a daily basis. So if your son likes sports find accessible groups-find a way of including him rather than telling him he can’t do something.

Show quote history

If you believe in the social model of disability then surely you believe that your child shouldn't be treated any differently to other kids because they have a disability. So if they aren't good enough for the choir it's because their voice isn't good enough and you need to accept this.

By all means if she is feeling lonely during break this needs to be addressed and perhaps the teacher can ensure that she is interacting with other kids.

I have a child with extra needs and she hasn't gotten picked for various things in her life. I would absolutely hate if she got chosen for things because she has extra needs. Its disingenuous. She has found an activity she absolutely shines in and we encourage this but even in that activity sometimes she doesn't get the role/part she wants because someone else is better.

Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 09:54

FunkyFringe · 27/03/2026 09:48

In smaller schools, pupils of all year groups interact so there is no social exclusion. Boys and girls will also play together. Many girls are super sporty and competitive and love to play ball games with the boys. Some boys hate ball games and prefer gentler games or chatting. That is the reality.

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That’s not my DD’s reality. In her school the boys very much play football and the girls play netball. I have tried to encourage her to like football but she doesn’t. She fell asleep watching the Wales game last night (it was on quite late but she was bored

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BananaPeels · 27/03/2026 09:52

FunkyFringe · 27/03/2026 09:48

In smaller schools, pupils of all year groups interact so there is no social exclusion. Boys and girls will also play together. Many girls are super sporty and competitive and love to play ball games with the boys. Some boys hate ball games and prefer gentler games or chatting. That is the reality.

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Realistically that is lovely but not my experience at all. My DD was definitely at the upper end of sporty and energy levels at school but she rarely, if ever, would have played ball games with the boys unless forced.

FunkyFringe · 27/03/2026 09:48

IdentityCris · 27/03/2026 07:59

But she's on her own because all her friends are off at choir practice, and most of those in her year who aren't are boys who don't want to play with her. How is she not excluded?

Edited

Show quote history

In smaller schools, pupils of all year groups interact so there is no social exclusion. Boys and girls will also play together. Many girls are super sporty and competitive and love to play ball games with the boys. Some boys hate ball games and prefer gentler games or chatting. That is the reality.

WildUmberCrow · 27/03/2026 09:44

I agree with you OP. And it's not the 'not getting into the choir': if 80% of her gang hadnt, it wouldnt be the issue it is. It's being one of very few in her circle that didn't.

Teaching resilience has it's place but this isnt one that has value imo. I don't think this sort of harsh experience of isolation and exclusion teaches anything helpful at 9.

Original poster

LovelyBranches · 27/03/2026 09:35

Justkeepswimmiing · 27/03/2026 06:24

But tell me... I am the parent of a child with a physical disability and other health needs... plus a child with a visible difference that isn't pleasant - the staring, the questions, etc ... What on earth am I supposed to do to help my child who has a physical disability / visible difference feels good about themselves? Of course I show them that everyone is unique, they are NOT defined by their disability... Yes, there are things they can't do and I gently have to tell them that it's because of their needs, but there are sometimes things life throws your way.

You asked - aibu to be annoyed that a school auditioned children for a singing competition. Yes, I think you are being unreasonable to be this annoyed about it. Maybe first come first serve would've been an option. Maybe randomised selection would have been an option. But it wasn't. They did an audition. DD is only year 4. She can accept that she didn't get to do it this time. She can audition again next time. It sucks. My DC loves sports. His physical disability means he can't do them. I don't blame the system. That's life.

What the school need to do now is help your daughter find some new friends, have support to cope with her emotions and thrive in the circumstances.

I don't understand why you posted in aibu if you don't want to genuinely know whether yabu!

My priority, despite all else, has been wanting my kids to have a healthy self esteem despite all their challenges, the operations... My daughter has had 8 operations related to her condition... EIGHT. Eight times of saying goodbye to your child while they are put to sleep in one of the most specialised children's hospitals in the world.

Don't talk to me about how my view is ableist. My viewpoint just wants your dd to have a healthy self esteem... For her to know that regardless of disability/ability etc, she is loved, secure, able to thrive in many other ways and that her disappointment and lack of making it this time doesn't define her.

Edited

Show quote history

I read this and have deeply reflected on it. Unfortunately I disagree with you entirely. I know exactly what it’s like to have children who have multiple operations, to have visible differences, to have people staring and asking questions.

You asked what you are supposed to do to help your child feel good about themselves and here’s where we differ-I believe in the social model of disability, you seem to have a very medical model of disability.

I believe (and the law supports this view largely) that access should be given to disabled people. So I fight for it. There have obviously been limitations (can’t go swimming when wearing plaster casts post op for example) but if my children wanted to climb pen y fan I’d try my best to find a way of getting them up there-I wouldn’t gently redirect. I don’t believe that their lives should be defined by their disability or made smaller.

It is my job to believe in my DC, to absorb the awfulness of putting them through operations (we’ve been through a similar number and due another soon) and allow them a life where what they want is possible. It’s also my job to educate anyone else in their life that believes otherwise.

I will not have my DD sitting alone at lunchtime and feeling left out. I can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.

There will always be Disabled people in the world, many of us will become Disabled in life. Access must be a shared problem that we all consider on a daily basis. So if your son likes sports find accessible groups-find a way of including him rather than telling him he can’t do something.

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deplorabelle · 27/03/2026 09:24

They are absolute bloody idiots to audition and train the precise number of students needed for the TV event. They should be rehearsing the entire choir for this and picking the final set to go to the concert last minute.

I get it OP - it's far more distressing for a primary child to spend a term being left out of something their friends are all doing. That's not something that teaches resilience or fosters a love of singing. I completely feel for you and your DD.