To think this is a real possibility in the future? (State pension)

At the moment yes. The OP was describing a possible future. There is literally no reason for human adult existence to be toiling for money apart from capitalism. We live in a world with ample resources and increasingly sophisticated technology. AI and robotics are going to destroy the capitalist model, because in a world where the rich and powerful don't need the masses to generate wealth for them that model breaks down. What we cannot yet know is how that will play out. There are utopian and dystopian versions of that future, just as there were for the industrial revolution, and humans being humans we will probably end up somewhere between those poles.

I mean from a capitalist resource-holder's point of view, the problem with the post-AI revolution, high medical innovation world is too many people, living too long, getting increasingly angry at their rapidly diminishing quality of life and access to opportunity. I don't think it's difficult to see where that version ends up.

But from the capitalist unit of production's POV, the robots coming and taking all our jobs could be either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how the free-d up resource is distributed. What would people do with their lives if they didn't have to scrabble for survival and material status? We've never had that world. I for one would be interested to see what it would look like. And I can guarantee you I would NOT run out of worthwhile things to do if I didn't have to go to work every damn day!

Children and teens go to school and learn new skills, spend time with their families, do research, exercise - and they aren’t all beacons of calm balanced mental and spiritual health.

When has any group of humans ever been this?

This is what childhood and retirement is for!

Create and consume art, be with their families, undertake education, do research, learn new skills, do exercise? Any of the million things that are actually good for your mental a spiritual wellbeing that no-one has time to do because they're too busy trying to keep the roof over their heads??

I mean I doubt we'll lever get to the point of UBI and robots doing all the work because capitalism and basic human greed, but the idea it would be a problem because 'what will people do all day' shows such an astounding lack of imagination I cannot even.

I am not bashing public sector pensions, but am concerned that they are unfunded and the amount is over one trillion.

The problem with means testing any sort of benefit, whether it’s state pension or anything else, is that there’s a very fine balance to be held to avoid people gaming the system. Eg: some people deliberately keep their earnings low, maybe choosing to work just 2 or 3 days a week, because they know that the top ups they’ll get in benefits won’t be far off what they’d earn if they worked to full capacity.

it would be similar with the state pension. If people knew they’d lose state pension if they paid more into a private pension, people will act accordingly and avoid paying in so much.

The absolute fundamental problem as has been said countless times on MN is that we’ve long gone down a route in the UK where there are too many perverse incentives. There is no where near enough incentive for people to be financially independent. Or to work harder, aim higher, get promoted. I remember back in the 1990s, people I knew would deliberately keep their earning low so they would be eligible for tax credits. And so it’s gone on for the last few decades.

if the state pension is ever means tested, people will make damn sure they spend their money rather than doing the supposedly wise thing of investing it in a private pension or savings. They’ll effectively be ‘punished’ by losing out on the state pension.

tbh all this is an argument in favour of universal basic income. Pay everyone basic rate which enables them to survive, roof over their heads, feed themselves etc but not an amount that allows for things over and above the basics. . Then anything earned on top is theirs - they don’t lose any of the basic income. I think you’d quickly find all the people who game the system would soon be incentivised to earn more, and thereby pay NI, tax etc which ultimately is what’s needed economically.

Plenty of jobs in the public sector for those begrudging public sector employees their pensions - which they contribute to from their lower paid jobs.
Not a public sector employee btw but these threads always turn in to public sector pension bashing . Better paid PS employess also risk AA tax too.

You live in fairyland if you don’t!

You live in fairyland if you really believe this.

They will do it because society will collapse if they don’t.
There will be cross party agreement and support from the public too.

It’s not the only one, but the triple lock is rendering it impossible.

What makes us human & not animal ?

Is how we treat our sick & elderly

In the modern world, we take care of our sick & elderly. Therefore there should be a state pension available for all people of a certain age.

However, this does mean that younger people must continue to contribute.

Otherwise the alternative is too horrible to think about.

But the government doing this would never be voted in again. Which is why no one will do it. Honestly no one will do it. Society will collapse before this is done.

Why do you think the US doesn’t have a state pension?

Yes, most Americans receive a state pension through the federal
Social Security program, funded by payroll taxes. It is not a universal basic pension, but a contributory system where individuals generally need 10 years of work (40 credits) to qualify, with full retirement age at 67 for those born in 1960 or later.

Key details about U.S. Social Security:

• Eligibility: Generally requires 40 credits (10 years of work).
• Retirement Age: Full benefits start at age 67, though reduced benefits can be claimed at 62.
• Average Payment: In 2022, the average monthly payment was approximately $1,657.
• Types of Benefits: Includes retirement, disability, and survivor benefits for spouses and children.
• Taxation: Benefits may be taxed if total retirement income exceeds certain thresholds

While Social Security is the primary "state" benefit, it is rarely enough to live on exclusively, leading many Americans to rely on private employer-sponsored pensions or personal 401(k) retirement accounts.

I do not think that the state pension will disappear altogether. However, what the government is already doing is bringing it into tax. As tax thresholds remain frozen this means that for anyone with a private pension, more and more of the state pension will disappear in tax.

Can you explain why out of all the benefits people receive that the state pension is the one that is unaffordable?

People need to stop relying on the government for a pension. All companies have to provide a pension and people stupidly opt out. Our future generations have to be taught to look after themselves. My children didn’t even know there was a benefit system the just though you had to work to get any money and this is how it should be. I’ve talked to my children about their future very early in life and taught them they have to learn to be self sufficient. And before I get jumped on I’m talking about able bodied people.

I absolutely agree with you. Our present faltering economy cannot support this level of welfare. Subtly the definition of disability has changed - and this is playing out in society with so many more people claiming for conditions which in the past didn't exist. The boundaries of those who should be capable of work but don't have been blurred in my opinion. There needs to be an open debate about this without people resorting to the trope of criticising 'benefits bashing'.

Also there needs to be a conversation about who is actually a poor pensioner- is it the pensioner who has thought ahead and got a small work pension to supplement their state pension - but is liable for full council tax and taxed on their small income over the tax threshhold? Or is it the person who, for whatever reason, relies solely on the state pension and gets pension credit, their full rent paid and their full council tax paid? Add in free dental and glasses, extra allowance for winter fuel, a severe disability addition of £82 per week if you're on disability benefits and carers addition payment if you're caring for someone.

This is where the reality versus the perceived reality deviates - begrudging the so-called boomers having state pensions with the triple lock rise every year is pretty common, but taxpaying pensioners are still contributing to society through payment of income tax and council tax. Also many are volunteering and also doing childcare, so there's the non-monetarised contribution too.

There are no easy answers and I wouldn't want to be in government, having to make these decisions. But I think that some form of universal basic income has to be the way forward, so people who choose to work and get a 'reward' for doing so. This government is going down a very dangerous and dubious road where the perception out there amongst working people is that they're being disadvantaged compared to those existing solely on benefits.

People keep saying this, but really, if you think about it, its going to be very hard to do. They cant just turn round and say, right, pensions means tested from next year, they will have to give at least ten years notice to allow people time to try and save into private pensions. That means, whichever government does it, will get all the backlash, with none of the financial rewards. They'll be voted out at the next election, and whoever replaces them will reap the benefits.

Personally I cant see it being completely removed, but for sure the pension age will keep rising.

They would need to look at pay as a whole, if they were to reduce the pension contribution to 10% the pay package for many professions within the CS simply wouldn’t be competitive enough, it struggles enough to obtain/retain good talent. (I’ve carefully said professions because the CS is huge with a broad range of professions, some earn comfortably within the CS, some take a huge pay cut offset by other CS benefits of which the pension is one).

Yes, perhaps there could be cutbacks on benefits for those who could work but don’t. NEETS. Or the ever increasing sickness benefits for more and more (what used to be classed as) non disabling conditions.

I’m trying to plan my retirement without the state pension in mind. I’m going to be very poor if it isn’t available (despite my planning). If I do end up getting it (I am only 29), I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I’m surprised we haven’t rioted about the state pension age rises yet, to be honest.

I don’t think the state pension will be scrapped but the triple lock will end and eventually the value of the state pension will be eroded by inflation.

I would like to see pensions in the public and private sector aligned whichever way around. I would also like contributions to pensions to be compulsory. I am mid 50s and worked for years without contributing, auto enrolment is a really good thing. I would still like there to be some form of universal state pension. Having contributed to it for others during my working life, I want to see it continue.

I agree but it’s better than the 18 months notice the worst affected of the Waspi women got.