SEND - children’s needs to be reassessed from year 6 2029?

The NC is not a good guide if that's what the teacher is saying. The average age of children who can do start of year 6 maths is 12.5. Pretty much all children are operating below the NC for their year.

There are clearly people who either work in or have children in what can only be described as crap schools, and instead of wanting to fix that they want everyone else to just accept inadequate teaching for their children too.

”Non-Sen children have inadequate education all the time.” What? Why do they?! Who is accepting that and just coming on here to shrug about it.

No thank you.

If my NT, apparently otherwise able, child had been falling behind year on year, with no recognition of that from the school - they wouldn’t be going to that school.

Expect better, people.

Semantics. She was talking about catch-up sessions for kids who need extra help. As was I. Her point stands though. There is very little resource available to do that stuff any more.

Being at university doesn’t prevent a child from being on the SEN register at some point previously. Some DC who have SEN or have previously had SEN (Not all remain on the SEN register for the rest of their schooling. Some only remain coded as K short term) go on to university. They are not mutually exclusive.

We did have a particular class who had a flurry of teacher changes. A new teacher tried to do work on train timetables, then realised they nearly the whole class didn't understand time. So she rolled back to telling the time for a few lessons, then picked it up again. That isn't SEN. That's a learning gap caused by inconsistency of teaching.

Or even for a very specific reason like my son. He wasn't behind until a long period out of school.

To be fair if all these children are SEN but can’t get an ehcp maybe instead of ehcps that money should be poured directly into schools?

That way all children are recognised and supported. Not just the ones who happen to have parents who will fight for them.

That isn't what the PP is referring to. She's talking about children who have gradually fallen behind over a series of years.

Your fractions example isn’t what the pp is talking about. They aren’t talking about one lesson/one topic. Stretching higher ability pupils wouldn’t be called an intervention.

Interventions and extra support are “provision that is additional to, or different from, that made generally for others of the same age” i.e. the legal definition of SEP. If they need SEP to be made for them, they have SEN.

Well by this definition both my children are SEN then because at one point or another they both had some form of intervention or catch up session during primary and secondary. Both are at uni one doing a masters the other undergraduate degree in stem subjects.

If they've fallen slightly behind, one of two things has happened. Either the teaching wasn't adequately differentiated to ensure that all children could access it, or those 10 children are behind despite adequately differentiated teaching and therefore have SEN, albeit mild.

The mindset in your school is that problem. Those 10 children aren't 'extra' to the 'ones with SEN'. They are part of the ones with SEN. If you need more funding your SENDCO should be applying for more funding. I'm not saying they'll get it, but at least applying.

If it's that bad now, how do you think you'll fare when they try to strip EHCPs?

I'm telling you now, and you can look back on this post in 2035, that exactly what has happened with EHCPs will happen with the new 7 categories of support system. Children will meet the criteria and then the Government of the day will say 'wait .... We didn't expect that.... We need to roll back.'

Children with high needs will still be children with high needs, no matter what you call them or what you categorise them as. The support will have to be there because without it, outcomes for all children will worsen.

I don't think that is the case. You could have a few kids who struggle with a particular concept in a lesson, let's say equivalent fractions, so you pull them out for some extra time on it. That isn't SEN. You might also have a group of higher ability that you want to stretch outside the classroom. That isn't SEN either.

Scotland really should be a warning against inclusion at all costs. From what I can see they pay more per child for education than we do, have worse results and seem to have 40% of chikdren identified as asn somehow and people terrified for thier lives!

My son has fallen behind because of how much time he's had out of school. He doesn't have any learning disabilities but because he's fallen behind to the point he likely won't meet expected standards this year in some areas and is receiving interventions, it is legally classed as a SEN need.

No, everyone does not have SEN. That isn’t what I said. Stop lying.

Non SEN kids get this all the time 🤷‍♀️ so yes they absolutely can.

So everyone is ‘SEN’. Then what?

This was happening at DD previous primary - so badly that we pulled her out. My friends still have children there and half the class are at least 1 year behind (headteacher told me this) because all TAs have been redirected to SEN.

If they need interventions and support, they meet the legal definition of having SEN.

That's not the solution. You can't give children inadequate provision and then say "That'll do them".

The 10 children in my class do not have any form of SEN at all, they have been basically neglected and allowed to fall behind because there is no one to put in a bit of extra support for them. In the past TAs would be running routine catch up sessions for those children who needed a bit of extra help. This would happen in every year group from year 1 onwards. These sessions no longer happen because all TAs are being used to support SEN. A lot of our SEN children do not, as you say have EHCPs, they do however have recognised issues diagnosed or otherwise which require support both inside and outside the classroom. However, there are still children like the 10 in my class that have fallen slightly behind in year 1,2,3 etc and are left to flounder without support. The curriculum is so fast paced now, with little time for consolidation of concepts in the classroom that these children will continue to struggle year on year unless the gaps and misconceptions in learning are identified and addressed quickly. It is these children who are suffering and it will only get worse.

other children’s educations are being detrimentally affected.

Yet some will, and do, equally complain when DC with SEN are in their DC’s class.

They will have to save money by offering the anxious ASD profile types an online school as I said earlier, and a basic supervised version of this in person where they need it. That solves the issue of them not coping in mainstream.

It really doesn’t. You don’t have a clue. You don’t understand SEN and you don’t want to learn.

Many schools have policy of “Disadvantaged First”. Do those who object to SEN support because it is ‘unfair’ also object to that? It doesn’t apply to my DC, but I don’t begrudge those DC it does apply to and I am not selfish enough to want the policy changed.

What amount the admissions code requiring priority to be given to LAC/PLAC, do people object to that too? Similarly, it doesn’t apply to my DC but I don’t begrudge those it does apply to or want it changed.

My nephew was behind in both Maths and English his entire life, but doesn’t have a significant enough delay to be diagnosed with anything or get an EHCP.

He had interventions for both; right up to GCSE.

I have delivered reading recovery and phonics interventions, and taken children out to do number work, and sat with secondary kids to develop their handwriting.

Lessons are differentiated by need, all of the children’s needs. We used to have to put on planning the breadth of needs in the class and how many were in each group. Staff are deployed to work with core groups to either enhance learning or scaffold it.

I have a school currently paying £200+ a day for a SATs intervention teacher.

This idea that schools just only focus on children with an EHCP and ignore everyone else is an absolute nonsense.

I think this is a good point. People appear less tolerant of SEN now as the costs are so enormous our other children’s educations are being detrimentally affected. It isn’t selfish to take a position that is best for your own child - after all, that’s what everyone on this thread is doing.

They will have to save money by offering the anxious ASD profile types an online school as I said earlier, and a basic supervised version of this in person where they need it.

That solves the issue of them not coping in mainstream.

My son is in primary but his class still does intervention groups too. He does handwriting intervention and maths intervention and also has differentiated maths work when applicable.