SEND - children’s needs to be reassessed from year 6 2029?

In many cases it also isn't even about learning to swim, it's part of their physio.

My son's hydrotherapy is about getting him stronger, not teaching him how to swim.

@Playingvideogames
ah I see.
Well my daughter has Arthrogryposis. But she is nonverbal which doesn’t fit with anything recorded about Arthrogryposis other than the early fatal cases. So, bit of a mystery there.

Now she goes to a specialist school- the reason being she has an unsafe swallow and because she can’t stand or walk so needs to be hoisted, is doubly incontinent, is PEG fed and needs to be suctioned rarely.

The school she attends is a very large school- probably the largest of the 3 special schools that can take physically disabled children in the county I live in.

I see the children who go there - and their parents.
Many of the children there have the syndromes and conditions I mentioned.
Many of the other children are autistic of the nonverbal and more extreme behaviour (trying to escape for instance).
I see virtually nothing on your list that could “cause” the children to be as they are.

I also work in a private school. Several children there are diagnosed with autism or ADHD. It’s evident which children are not NT. Those children are fortunate to have parents who can afford private education and don’t need EHCPs and they are all verbal and physically able bodied. It just takes a slight tweak in one of those key areas before no amount of money would make their private school unfeasible.

But I can assure you there’s the same “behaviour” issues that you attribute to lack of parenting with some (and by no means the majority) of those children despite young parents and strict school (if not home) structure. Because… that’s what autism and/or ADHD can and often does result in.

It’s extremely reductive and insulting to criticise parents with children with autism across the board.

As I said my daughter is nonverbal- possibly she has autism. A lot of her behaviour would suggest as much.

I can promise you I’d have parented her firmly … but there was and is nothing that can parent nonverbal frustration from her. i always say i I can’t parent away her anxiety about medical appointments because I don’t know what she understands. I can’t parent an interest into her in more than 1 toy (over 5 years) or of new books or even tv. She will watch the same few things endlessly or just ignore anything new. She pushes away new toys. Hates presents. Won’t do arts and crafts. She loves being outside and can’t understand how pissibg down rain isn’t great for a walk or that there aren’t places I can change her pads (as she’s doubly incontinent). Do you see what I’m getting at?

Sure, you watched a show about one girl and you probably know other parents etc. Have you ever actually been in a special school? You’d be 5 minutes in one before you would understand that when people try to articulate a need (rather than describing everything a child does or doesn’t do) as many on this thread are TRYING to do ( the former) that it’s not lazy old parents who can’t be fucked to say no that results in at least 99 percent of children being described as disabled and therefore needing extra provision to be educated.

"Thankfully, laws can be changed. Which is what is going to happen, because it's been deemed the laws allowing this sort of thing are no longer appropriate."

It doesn't say that in the White Paper.

Regardless of your views, absolutely no one is going to be happy when these kids with SEMH are back in mainstream classes, or very slightly smaller hubs.

In the SEMH schools I worked in kids gave each other black eyes, badly injured teachers, shouted the n word out in class, threw water at each other, made sex noises extremely loudly and for very long time while teacher is trying to teach. Some take their clothes off. It almost doesn't matter what caused these presentations, it's not safe to manage it in mainstream or SRP classrooms.

The amount of swimming lessons offered in the majority of schools wouldn’t teach any kid to swim. The ones who learn are the ones who go swimming with their family regularly outside of school.

I agree with all that PLUS:

• kids and teens are on a global stage now - there’s no outgrowing your hometown and leaving it behind, your embarrassing teen haircut is immortalised. As a result they feel pressured and scared to fail. Learning comes from failing and trying again
• women / mothers working out of the home
• huge rise in blended families and unclear expectations across multiple settings
• parents don’t back or respect authority figures like teachers so why would kids
• lack of exercise

Lots of non-sen children leave primary school unable to swim despite it being on the national curriculum. Most schools cannot afford to fund enough lessons for children to be taught to swim competently so what is provided is 'good enough' and most parents top up by paying for additional private lessons outside school. Some children's parents don't top up and they don't ever become good swimmers.

Same here. But that’s also why and how we got the LA to pay for a specialist independent school without needing to go to a Tribunal.

I have 3 dc with autism and adhd and other diagnoses and only one has an EHCP.

My son with an EHCP also doesn't have ASD or ADHD.

Except you won't die if you don't get a maths GCSE and lots of children without any defined SEN won't get one. But swimming is a matter of safety.

Again, EHCPs are based on needs, not diagnosis.

I have 3 DC with EHCPs. The one with the most complex needs, DS1, does not have ASD or ADHD. DS3 does have ASD, but even if he didn’t, he would still meet the threshold for an EHCP.

Mainly that we were much, much older than the other parents and engaged with the therapist in discussions and completed our “homework”.

Well the government isn’t so sure on that. They write “we expect the number of children and young people needing a Specialist Provision Package, and hence an EHCP to access support, will return to around today’s level by 2035.” They also claim the changes will involve spending more.

As the parent of DC who takes medication that was originally not funded by the NHS, decisions around medications and QALYs are far more nuanced than only looking at cost.

EHCPs are given and based on need not diagnoses.

Because lots of the children weren't in school - they were truanting, kept home to watch younger children, in trouble, in borstal, you name it.

We can be fairly sure fewer children will be legally entitled to as much provision as they are now, because we cannot continue spending the amount being spent currently, so whatever happens will be building towards a system where less money is spent.

Because there isn't enough money. The bit that all the parents going on about legal entitlements and needs just wilfully ignore, you simply cannot have something if there's no money to pay for it.

A bit like some amazing medicines and treatmentsthat the NHS do not fund because they are simply too expensive - it's deemed that while they could give benefit the cost is too high to justify.

I mean, virtually everyone contributing to this and other EHCP threads have children with ASD/ADHD. Not Rhett/Down/Angelman syndrome.

What % of EHCPs do they make up?

Why did you stick out like a sore thumb? If you don’t mind my asking.

Which part of your list is responsible for children with cerebral palsy? Arthrogryposis? Genetic mutations that are de novo? Osteogenesis imperfecta? Rhett’s syndrome? Angel man syndrome? Mitochondrial disorders?

I can see this from both sides. Before DS was placed on the autism pathway we were signposted to Occupational Therapy and we attended parenting classes. DH and I - 40 at the time, teachers - stuck out like a sore thumb amongst the other parents. However my brother was a school refuser in the 80s and would physically fight my parents if he “didn’t get his own way”. It’s clear to see now he’s autistic.

Absolutely!

The only option is what they’re doing. Massively curtailing the legal obligations and special school places for SEMH, providing some basic support via mainstream and crossing their fingers. There is no perfect answer.

There’s no definitive test for PDA. It’s based on behaviours - the same behaviours caused by a lack of boundaries.