To be annoyed I had to watch GB News to see coverage of anti women protestors at Southwark

I agree with this.
I think this would need to be a regular occurrence affecting 10s or 100s of people to merit a BBC News story - there would need to be evidence of it being a systemic problem rather than an isolated case.

I don't 'fear' trans people, or men in general. I'm a former athlete (I still train, but don't compete) in a sport that had precious few opportunities for women, so I've spent most of my life training, and sharing changing rooms with men. I don't care who I - personally - share changing rooms, bathrooms etc with. I'm in the quite unique position of being physically stronger than a lot of men and extremely capable of looking after myself, which I'm sure influences that stance.

I refuse to judge all trans people - or any other group - by their worst, or assume that they have nefarious intentions. I don't think 'trans women are women', or that it's possible to change sex, although I'm happy to call someone whatever makes them happy, if they ask me to.

With that said, I'm a firm believer in single-sex spaces being restricted to a single sex. No trans women, no men, nobody that isn't a biological woman in women's only spaces.

In purely practical terms, anything else is impossible to police. It's not possible to absolutely define what makes someone trans, so it's unfair to put employees in the position of making that determination, and undignified for those being judged. Service providers should be legally compelled enforce their single sex spaces at a policy level, and the government should be explicitly clear that there are no circumstances in which someone can claim to be anything but their biological sex in order to benefit from something related to how they 'identify'.

If the trans population explodes, third/fourth spaces will become necessary. But I don't think we're there yet. Trans people will have to live with the fact that the world can't be expected to make disproportionate adjustments for such a tiny minority.

I expect very few of us will have encountered a biological male in a woman's space. Fewer still will have encountered one there for purely nefarious purposes, and even fewer will have been/will be attacked or assaulted in a changing room/toilet. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take every precaution possible to prevent these things from happening. Most of us won't have a serious car crash, but we always wear a seatbelt, every car has an airbag etc.

I don't care who I change with, or who sees me naked, but many people do and it's manifestly unfair to deny them their dignity based on a choice made by someone else. People should be safe, but they should also feel safe. No matter how progressive society gets on this issue, there will always be a significant number of women who won't feel safe or comfortable sharing spaces with men. Trans people, or people who don't care can be given the choice to use a third space if that's where they're comfortable, but we must never take that choice away from women, or men.

It's pretty rare on MN, but it's certainly possible to oppose various trans issues without wanting to segregate society or live in a constant state of fear/oppression.

Fair enough but I thought safeguarding was safeguarding, not "I'll do my version of safeguarding and you do yours".

Hmmm, I get you @ILikeDungs
Academic study though: as we have seen before, academics have wide and very varied views don't they?

MN has definitely changed. A couple of years ago saying a man couldn't be a woman meant deletion or sent to a dark corner.

Now the majority are allowed to openly state that you cannot change your sex, sex is binary and men shouldn't be in women's safe spaces. Facts are winning through.

Hopefully, in time, this trans nonsense and social contagion will have had it's day and children (often autistic) will be given help to accept they are wonderful as they are and taking hormones to stop puberty, bind breasts and lop off perfectly healthy breast tissue isn't the answer. Parents, teachers and institutions will help children rather than tell them things that cannot be.

Yes, sanity prevails on MNet.

Not just on that thread, but on loads of threads. We're a knowledgeable and sensible lot. Just look at the trans threads on AIBU and chat. Especially the ones with polls.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5492987-a-hill-you-will-die-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

A thread that shows sanity is prevailing. Every other post or thereabout is rejecting men can become women, and not hushed away to FWR.
Despite some posters stating it’s not an issue. It
clearly is. Refreshing.

All sorts of people work in jobs that are supposed to involve safeguarding.

Not really, Verytall. I mean, I have to agree with Accidentally. When I saw you claim to work in safeguarding many many pages ago I thought WTAF?

But if you do and those are your standards...well no wonder we are where we are.

I come across some arrogance on Mumsnet, but to declare that you know what my job is better than I do just because you disagree with my opinion, even for Mumsnet standards, is up there. Comically awful behaviour

At this point, trying to suggest sex based rights are 'niche' is just a bit daft, I'm afraid. The majority of people agree.

You'll find what we want tallies with what the Supreme Court judgment found re the Equality Act, and what both Westminster and Scottish govt overtly and explicitly accepted as the law.

I didn't understand it at all. Very bizarre.

Question what narrative? I don't understand what you mean.

Oh the irony! There is only ever one side of this debate on mn that does the hectoring and lecturing! Most of the “good women of MN” don’t engage on threads like this because they are bored of it all or can’t face the inevitable backlash if they dare question the narrative.

Yet you still keep coming back, to lecture the good women of Mumsnet, good honest women, who simply want sex segregated safe spaces - changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards, sports and anywhere else, where male intervention is unwanted.
This desire to have safe, single sex spaces, is not borne of hatred to anyone or any group, it is down to respect and common decency, something which you have demonstrated by your numerous posts, that you are lacking.

Not wanting male strangers in the female changing room doesn’t mean we hate men! We have a healthy wariness and yes, fear of unexpected men in what should be a female-only space.
Many of us had/have wonderful fathers, male lovers or husbands, male friends, brothers, uncles. These nice men also shouldn’t be in female changing rooms. And we still don’t want to undress in front of male strangers! Or see male strangers undress! And we don’t want any males in female sport or prisons.
Our position isn’t radical, strange or unreasonable.

You don’t work in safeguarding. I’ve worked in criminal justice/safeguarding for over 20 years.

All the men in my life are lovely and as far as I know they wouldn’t at harm anyone. I don’t believe they should be allowed in women’s spaces. I don’t fear them, they just know what spaces to stick to.

That’s why single sex spaces exist.

It’s not kind to lie.

The last part of your post is much like the last few pages. I work in safeguarding, have done so for twenty years, with extensive academic study to do so. So I'll go with my professional, lived and evidenced based reality rather than a Mumsnet board.
I honestly don't understand what some of you posting on here want. A fully segregated world, seeing as all men are the problem and all men are to be feared at all times, according to several posters? Because there are countries where you can live like that if you want. I don't think you'll find they really have women's rights in mind though. As I said a few pages back, I'm happier in my reality and I have zero interest in joining yours, or any of the terf/GC or whatever term it is you currently use. It genuinely sounds a horrible, fearful place to live, under constant threat of half of society. Even this thread is depressing, so I'll going to do my best not to get drawn back in. Much like the police apparently advised Miranda, probably best we just stay away from each other

It is not trans per se, verytall it is MEN who are the potential threat. You may believe transwomen are women and transmen are men but it does not make it so.

We are hard wired to be wary from an early age. There is a good reason for it as men do most of the assaulting, raping and killing. This does not change when men start to identify as women. It is borne out in reality.
There are posts- there's a thread on FWR, re "it will never happen......" that might be helpful? But I'd guess you don't read FWR?
Have you read around the subject? Seen any stats?

I assume you'd rather throw out the same old tropes, as has been mentioned above.
It's tiresome
It's offensive
And boring
Heard it all before

"You seem to think that anyone who is trans is some sort of bizarre caricature, who is threat to any woman. "

You still don't get it. It's about males. Not trans.

"I said it right at the start of the thread, if a man wants to attack a woman he's not going to worry about putting on a dress and finding a women's toilets first."

That comment has already been addressed and torn apart. As we said, they don't need to bother putting on a dress anyway.
'If a burglar wants to break into a house he's not going to worry about locked doors, but we still lock them.'
We strengthen safeguards we don't tear them down.

and what you are saying is deeply offensive because, again:

Transwomen are males with penis and testicles. Why should a male with penis and testicles being in the female change room?

Lgbtqnation - so an anti-women thinktank. 🙄

Oh that purity trick. Women don't need to know or participate in sports to care that women and girls have fair and safe sport for those who are into it.

And if males want to convince us they should be allowed in our female only spaces, calling for us to be raped, curb stomped, punched, stabbed etc is not the best strategy. Polls released today show trans is going backwards in support in America and by female Democrat voters. That is no surprise. Interesting twitter thread: https://x.com/lxeagle17/status/2023744570308317232