Page 14 | We don't want the government to lurch to the left

Bargepole45 · 2026-02-10T13:57:01+00:00

I am absolutely astounded that Labour think it's democratic to decide that they can lurch to the left despite being elected with a very clear promise to not tax and spend. I believe this is absolutely not what the general public want and I am really worried that the economy isn't going to survive this and we will end up with an IMF bailout that will lead to very painful spending cuts for our most vulnerable. Please vote: YABU :I want Labour to lurch to the left in order to increase taxation and spending YANBU: I don't want Labour to lurch to the left and would be against further tax and spending rises

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:42

@nearlylovemyusername how many of those respondents receive benefits though?

BlackCatDiscoClub · 10/02/2026 16:42

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 15:57

Of course we don't all think alike but we are supposed to be democratic. Majority rules. I would argue that if you want to implement a new policy that wasn't in your manifesto only a year after you got into power then unless there is an emergency situation then the government should at least try and make sure there is general support for the policy. Only 25% of the population supported lifting the cap and the majority wanted it to remain. If Labour were so sure it was the right thing to do then why couldn't they make the argument and put it in their manifesto? They must have known they always wanted to do it. Instead they intentionally misled the public and even openly suggested that they wouldn't lift the cap if they got into power.

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Can you show me the polls where people said they cared more about avoiding tax and spend than child poverty? I mean Labour did win the election, so it seems theres quite a few people who prefer centre left to centre right? And thats with a lot of socialists holding their nose as they voted too.

Dragonflytamer · 10/02/2026 16:41

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:26

How would you close the Cafe Nero loophole? Go on, tell us?

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If you go as left wing as some poster seem to be advocating Cafe Nero would go away. You'd be a buy to buy a standard British Coffee once a week using your quota from the nationalised coffee shop in town. You could choose milk or sugar but any more personal expression of individuality would be right wing non-sense.

Original poster

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:40

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:39

Higher taxation absolutely doesn't work for the individual if you are a net contributor

Of course there are benefits though. A safety net means my streets are safer, an educated population is better when i’m older etc

Oh absolutely to a certain point. That's why I made the point about a civilised society. There are wider benefits of taxation but once they have largely been achieved then increased taxation doesn't benefit the net contributing individual in the same way.

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XDownwiththissortofthingX · 10/02/2026 16:40

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:37

You seem to despise even small business owners. Do you think they are all wealthy? Have you ever run or worked for a small business? Do you have no idea at all of their value to the economy?

We do have to acknowledge though that one reason for our low productivity is that some companies that normally would fold survived longer than normal due to low interest rates.

This.

"I can't afford to pay a decent wage!!!" is as straightforward an indicator as there is that your business isn't viable.

If you want to hobble along working 18 hour days and never taking a holiday, fine, you are within your rights to kill yourself through work. You have no right to expect anyone else to live in penury though just because your business struggles to pay their NMW.

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:40

@OhDear111 how would you make the state more productive?

Original poster

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:39

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:36

What utter utter shite.

How are we supposed to run schools and roads with no taxation?

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I think you need to step away from this thread. You aren't even comprehending what's been written and are getting increasingly irate. Nobody has suggested we don't have any taxation.

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treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:39

Higher taxation absolutely doesn't work for the individual if you are a net contributor

Of course there are benefits though. A safety net means my streets are safer, an educated population is better when i’m older etc

OhDear111 · 10/02/2026 16:38

@treeowl Becayse they are forced to borrow!!!! Not because they make £millions! It’s the state that’s the most unproductive. Sort that out and we might get better value for our taxes.

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:37

You seem to despise even small business owners. Do you think they are all wealthy? Have you ever run or worked for a small business? Do you have no idea at all of their value to the economy?

We do have to acknowledge though that one reason for our low productivity is that some companies that normally would fold survived longer than normal due to low interest rates.

JustAloeVera · 10/02/2026 16:36

Dorisbonson · 10/02/2026 15:34

You think the NHS with 1.5m employees is so efficiently run that cuts can't be made without maintaining or increasing standards of care?

In any organisation there are ways of working which can be improved.

By way of small example, last year at hospital I filled in my information to a paper form and then a staff member manually input that to a computer told me to take a seat and then when it was my turn someone else guided me through a set of double doors. There were multiple staff members sitting around. The whole process could have been replaced with an iPad, a tv screen and an arrow - most patients would have been fine unassisted. That could prudently save over 150k a year? There will be tens of thousands of opportunities like this

There will be paperwork and paperwork processes which will be carried which could be streamlined.

1.5m employees is massive. If you think there are no efficiency savings then you are very naive.

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But then you have to factor in costs of iPads/TVs and their replacements, software and licensing, IT support for said software and you would still realistically need a member of staff to man a desk for enquiries/issues etc.

I agree you could probably make a saving in the long term (after initial outlay and roll out) but nowhere near the 150k per year mark.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:36

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:35

Higher taxation absolutely doesn't work for the individual if you are a net contributor. Especially once it goes beyond a certain level and all the arguments about a 'civilised society' can't be made. Clearly some people would be financially better off in a low tax economy where they fund just their own needs privately. This is why Dubai etc is attracting a lot of these people. You can think whatever you want about the ethics of this but it's clear that the people going there feel that they are better off there.

It is fundamentally selfish to want tax increases funded by someone else to fund spending that will be spent on you. You are essentially asking one family to fund another. It isn't a selfless stance to take when you're the beneficiary. It is by definition selfish.

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What utter utter shite.

How are we supposed to run schools and roads with no taxation?

ThingsAreNotWhatTheyWere · 10/02/2026 16:36

TheGrimSmile · 10/02/2026 16:02

I feel that mumsnet has been taken over by people planted by Reform.

I can't help but agree with this.

Look, I'm probably left of centre, certainly not "hard left", and fully agree with personal responsibility, hard work, making good choices as far as can reasonably be foreseen, the constant division of people into net contributors and net beneficiaries and the disdain and contempt in which the latter now seem to be held is becoming deeply upsetting and even frightening to behold to someone born with, shall we say, far from perfect health.

EasternStandard · 10/02/2026 16:35

AnnPerkins · 10/02/2026 16:32

See it's this kind of attitude that worries me about the Labour soft left. You seem to despise even small business owners. Do you think they are all wealthy? Have you ever run or worked for a small business? Do you have no idea at all of their value to the economy?

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This and wanting people to leave. It’s really something to see how much pp lack understanding around these two basic things.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:35

AnnPerkins · 10/02/2026 16:32

See it's this kind of attitude that worries me about the Labour soft left. You seem to despise even small business owners. Do you think they are all wealthy? Have you ever run or worked for a small business? Do you have no idea at all of their value to the economy?

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They could afford to pay out a bit more. They just don’t want ro.

How else do you suggest we raise our wages to the equivalent of the rest of the Wearwrn world.

Original poster

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:35

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:31

Why? Taxation works for the benefit of everyone not the individual and the result makes for a more cohesive society that actually functions.

Ypu are talking about selfishness wanting low taxation for the individual.

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Higher taxation absolutely doesn't work for the individual if you are a net contributor. Especially once it goes beyond a certain level and all the arguments about a 'civilised society' can't be made. Clearly some people would be financially better off in a low tax economy where they fund just their own needs privately. This is why Dubai etc is attracting a lot of these people. You can think whatever you want about the ethics of this but it's clear that the people going there feel that they are better off there.

It is fundamentally selfish to want tax increases funded by someone else to fund spending that will be spent on you. You are essentially asking one family to fund another. It isn't a selfless stance to take when you're the beneficiary. It is by definition selfish.

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XDownwiththissortofthingX · 10/02/2026 16:33

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:32

@XDownwiththissortofthingX yes

Well then yes, I'd say it's quite likely a significant number of prospective Reform voters are, themselves, in receipt of benefits.

Turkeys and Christmas, etc.

OhDear111 · 10/02/2026 16:33

@PocketSand Ww are at the stage now where it will be more than painful to employers! Do you really think they have this amount of money swilling around? Most employers need money to innovate too. Putting vast costs onto employers means redundancies. All governments have gone along with in work benefits however we have loads of people deliberately working part time to keto benefits going. It’s not all about poor wages. Lots of the issues are about not working full time.

DrPrunesqualer · 10/02/2026 16:33

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:26

I’m not in denial. I just can’t get worked up about it. Good riddance.

People have always left. I can’t get worked up about that number of selfish arseholes leaving

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That’s incorrect you said you didn’t know any so it wasn't happening

and to think good riddance is short sighted

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:32

@XDownwiththissortofthingX yes

AnnPerkins · 10/02/2026 16:32

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:15

Maybe that cafe should pay better wages then? My heart bleeds

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See it's this kind of attitude that worries me about the Labour soft left. You seem to despise even small business owners. Do you think they are all wealthy? Have you ever run or worked for a small business? Do you have no idea at all of their value to the economy?

Rayburn · 10/02/2026 16:31

treeowl · 10/02/2026 16:22

@XDownwiththissortofthingX aren’t a lot of Reform voters on benefits?

I hope they’re not living on their wits.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/02/2026 16:31

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:28

If you are a net beneficiary of the state and are left leaning and want more taxation to find more public spending then you are as much of a selfish arsehole than a young person leaving the country who doesn't want to be a net tax contributor.

Once again, Turkey don't vote for Christmas. It works both ways

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Why? Taxation works for the benefit of everyone not the individual and the result makes for a more cohesive society that actually functions.

Ypu are talking about selfishness wanting low taxation for the individual.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 10/02/2026 16:30

Bargepole45 · 10/02/2026 16:27

Then who do you advocate for?

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Not who, what.

There isn't currently a mainstream Westminster political party I could vote for, because they are all wedded to the same neolib, right-of-centre idiocy that has caused the shitty situation the UK is in right now.

nearlylovemyusername · 10/02/2026 16:29

Rising share of UK public in favour of tax and spending cuts

"The latest British Social Attitudes report, published on Tuesday by the National Centre for Social Research, showed that 19 per cent of people said taxes and spending should be reduced, the highest since comparable data was first available in 1983, and more than three times the all-time average of 6 per cent."

You can argue that 19% is not that much, but it's the trend which is important here. We've never seen the numbers like this before. Population is getting increasingly fed up of these enormous taxes feeding welfare spend.

What is even more important that those in favour of tax and spending cuts have only Reform and Tory to turn to. Tories have little chance at this stage so Reform it is then.

This was all so predictable in 2024, but nobody would listen.

For avoidance of doubt - I'd rather chop my hand than vote Reform. But those of you who are still shouting for higher taxes and higher spending need to understand that you're bringing Reform in, and then it's exactly these left wing ones who will suffer the most.