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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder why people keep voting SNP?

415 replies

Carla786 · 31/01/2026 05:34

I don't know a lot about Scottish politics and I may be missing important things they've done. However, I used to have a lot of respect for Nicola Sturgeon but her handling of gender critical issues has destroyed that. The SNP do not seem very effective at reducing drugs, poverty, or other serious issues.
My understanding was that quite a few people vote SNP not because they want independence (which most Scots appear to not want) but because they think the SNP are more committed to Scotland sorcifically than Tories and Labour. How accurate is this though..?

Since most Scots appear to not want independence, I thought the SNP was probably high achieving in other areas & Tories & Labour seen as poor by comparison. Or is it more often seen as the best of 3 bad options? Or is SNP much more positive than the impression I've got?

OP posts:
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21
NewName12345678910 · 03/02/2026 06:16

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 02/02/2026 21:17

How is it nonsense that Scotgov are going to court to allow them to put certain males in female prison? That’s the fundamental basis of the court case. Transwomen are biologically male, they are all legally male for the purposes of the equality act.

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Your take on it is different to the one I’ve called out though, where the poster claimed they’re going to court to
“have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”
They’re not doing that, they’re going to court to defend the current policy which is to make decisions on a case by case basis and yes that could result in a trans woman being placed in a female prison. It’s absolutely fair enough to challenge that and say no trans women at all should be in a women’s prison, but why not just say that instead of writing this hyperbolic bullshit.

NewName12345678910 · 03/02/2026 06:10

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 22:27

But if they’re not fighting for them to go into the male estate, where else are they fighting for them to go? There isn’t a third option.

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They’re not fighting for “them” to go anywhere, they’re defending the existing policy which looks at the specifics of each individual case to decide, much the same as in England. And the challenge is that it should be clear cut based on biological sex, with no trans women being placed in women’s prisons at all - I happen to agree with that challenge but the point remains that they’re not doing it to
“have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”
which was the comment I was calling out as nonsense.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 22:27

NewName12345678910 · 02/02/2026 21:30

But that’s not what the original comment claimed. The comment I called bullshit on came from @ThatBlackCat who wrote:

“The Scottish government is going to court to have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”

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But if they’re not fighting for them to go into the male estate, where else are they fighting for them to go? There isn’t a third option.

LlynTegid · 02/02/2026 21:38

The SNP in my opinion is the best argument against Scottish independence.

NewName12345678910 · 02/02/2026 21:30

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 02/02/2026 21:17

How is it nonsense that Scotgov are going to court to allow them to put certain males in female prison? That’s the fundamental basis of the court case. Transwomen are biologically male, they are all legally male for the purposes of the equality act.

Show quote history

But that’s not what the original comment claimed. The comment I called bullshit on came from @ThatBlackCat who wrote:

“The Scottish government is going to court to have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 02/02/2026 21:17

NewName12345678910 · 02/02/2026 19:56

They’re going to defend this SPS policy https://www.sps.gov.uk/about-us/our-latest-news/policy-management-transgender-people-custody

which states

The policy outlines how transgender people will be first admitted into custody, where they are accommodated during their sentence, and how they are managed.
^^
It sets out an individualised approach which ensures that any transgender woman with a history of violence against women and girls (VAWG), who presents a risk to women and girls, will not be placed in the women’s estate.
^^
It is an approach which supports the rights of transgender people, and the welfare of others in custody, as well as SPS staff.

Now, you might feel that no trans woman should be in a women’s prison, regardless of risk assessment, and that’s fair enough, I might agree with you. That doesn’t change the fact that the original post I was challenging is complete and utter nonsense.

Show quote history

How is it nonsense that Scotgov are going to court to allow them to put certain males in female prison? That’s the fundamental basis of the court case. Transwomen are biologically male, they are all legally male for the purposes of the equality act.

NewName12345678910 · 02/02/2026 19:56

Brefugee · 02/02/2026 10:35

what is it you think they're doing then? since you just keep gainsaying what others are saying about the article?

I thought at the time of indyref that it was a shame yes didn't win. I wonder if it was bad campaigning by the Yes side, interference from outside (as with Brexit) or something else?

In general i don't find any party that aligns with all my beliefs. Were i Scottish, and were i in Scotland i would want to see robust figures on independence, with a 5, 10 and 25 year prognosis. But i would probably vote for Alba or SNP.

And then i would spend the next years campaigning for single sex spaces.

Show quote history

They’re going to defend this SPS policy https://www.sps.gov.uk/about-us/our-latest-news/policy-management-transgender-people-custody

which states

The policy outlines how transgender people will be first admitted into custody, where they are accommodated during their sentence, and how they are managed.
^^
It sets out an individualised approach which ensures that any transgender woman with a history of violence against women and girls (VAWG), who presents a risk to women and girls, will not be placed in the women’s estate.
^^
It is an approach which supports the rights of transgender people, and the welfare of others in custody, as well as SPS staff.

Now, you might feel that no trans woman should be in a women’s prison, regardless of risk assessment, and that’s fair enough, I might agree with you. That doesn’t change the fact that the original post I was challenging is complete and utter nonsense.

Scottish Prison Service logo.

Policy for the Management of Transgender People in Custody | Scottish Prison Service

https://www.sps.gov.uk/about-us/our-latest-news/policy-management-transgender-people-custody

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 18:40

Coffeeandbooks88 · 02/02/2026 18:39

Which Scotland benefited just as much as England from even if they pretend otherwise.

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Not sure what your point is

Coffeeandbooks88 · 02/02/2026 18:39

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 17:14

Great justification for empire

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Which Scotland benefited just as much as England from even if they pretend otherwise.

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 17:14

Genevieva · 02/02/2026 16:42

Marriages across the boarder and the children resulting from them are just one symptom of how the union increased economic opportunity and social mobility by giving people access to a larger range of opportunities.

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Great justification for empire

BigAnne · 02/02/2026 17:10

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:24

Why is this?

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It seems to be a very complex situation. The teachers I know say these kids are traumatised due to their home lifes. Domestic violence and addiction issues. The kids have no support at home with school work. One described some kids as being hyper vigilant manifesting in sudden outbursts of anger especially when being asked to do or not do something.

Genevieva · 02/02/2026 16:42

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 16:38

Whether or not you exist has nothing to do with Scotlands economy. My children wouldn't exist either

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Marriages across the boarder and the children resulting from them are just one symptom of how the union increased economic opportunity and social mobility by giving people access to a larger range of opportunities.

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 16:38

Genevieva · 02/02/2026 16:30

It as a short comment countering the comment before, based on my own family experience, not a detailed research paper! I wouldn’t exist if there was an international border between Edinburgh (where my mother grew up, though her family are from further north) and Northumberland, where my father grew up.

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Whether or not you exist has nothing to do with Scotlands economy. My children wouldn't exist either

Genevieva · 02/02/2026 16:30

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 15:42

I'm no supporter of Indy now

  • but Scotland's union with England was under duress failing to acknowledge that exposes your ignorance. There might be a plausible case to be made, but one that doesn't offer an alternative perspective (or ignores) other issues like McCrone report makes your opinion appear more vibes than fact based.
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It as a short comment countering the comment before, based on my own family experience, not a detailed research paper! I wouldn’t exist if there was an international border between Edinburgh (where my mother grew up, though her family are from further north) and Northumberland, where my father grew up.

Original poster
Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:24

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 15:32

Schools have no teeth to discipline kids. They just have to put up with disruption and violence.

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Why is this?

OP posts:
BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 15:42

Genevieva · 02/02/2026 12:59

I disagree. My mother is Scottish and I spent a large chunk of my childhood with grandparents and cousins in Scotland. The creation of the United Kingdom was a joint enterprise between Scotland and England that created one of the most successful countries in the world. The economic opportunities it brought Scotland and England enormous, and it did so in a way that kept Scotland’s heritage in almost every other respect: it’s own education system and legal system being the most obvious, which has helped nurture Scotland’s culture through over 300 years of union. That’s a pretty unique success story. Compare it with the ancient kingdoms of France or any other European country, where every regional system was subsumed into the greater whole with the intention of eradicating difference.

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I'm no supporter of Indy now

  • but Scotland's union with England was under duress failing to acknowledge that exposes your ignorance. There might be a plausible case to be made, but one that doesn't offer an alternative perspective (or ignores) other issues like McCrone report makes your opinion appear more vibes than fact based.
Differentforgirls · 02/02/2026 15:37

EvangelineTheNightStar · 02/02/2026 15:24

So you are saying someone who experiences xenophobic abuse it’s their fault?

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Tbh?

I live in the central belt.

We’re far too busy slagging each other for being “Unionists” or “Separatists” to allow the English who live here to be more than a passing thought. They join in.

We have English MSPs. We have Indy campaigners who are English but live, work and vote here.

I have English friends and neighbours. There is nothing unusual about living in Scotland when you were born and bred in England.

We’re all British.

To be insulted constantly by Scottish people is probably because you’re an arse, rather than you having a different accent.

BlueJuniper94 · 02/02/2026 15:32

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 15:29

Re schools : Google tells me that recent surge in school violence was fuelled by Covid and cost of living crisis, but clearly since all UK had this, there must have been something going on in Scotland specifically to precipitate this. Some articles I've read say schools were prioritising less punishment-focused discipline methods : was this due to SNP or something else?

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Schools have no teeth to discipline kids. They just have to put up with disruption and violence.

Original poster
Carla786 · 02/02/2026 15:29

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 12:30

Exponential rise in violence?

Why has this happened? Why did the SNP affect schools so negatively?

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Re schools : Google tells me that recent surge in school violence was fuelled by Covid and cost of living crisis, but clearly since all UK had this, there must have been something going on in Scotland specifically to precipitate this. Some articles I've read say schools were prioritising less punishment-focused discipline methods : was this due to SNP or something else?

OP posts:
Lillitut · 02/02/2026 15:24

This reply has been deleted

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Doing it again. Victim blaming. Nice attitude. Oh I’m anti Indy so deserve to get it in the neck. How ‘civic and joyous’. There are no excuses for anyone to have battered me as a child for being ‘English’, and yet you seem to think it was justified. Nice.

For what it’s worth I don’t spout political views in public. I find the whole Indy conversation very tiresome, and I learned to keep my mouth shut to avoid a battering at a young age. I comment on these threads because as an economist I just find the level of economic illiteracy with regards to Indy staggering. Yes, vote for it all you like but go in with eyes wide open that it would be a total shit show financially and lots of Scot’s would really suffer. Don’t be a Farage and lie and pretend it would be anything but!

EvangelineTheNightStar · 02/02/2026 15:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

So you are saying someone who experiences xenophobic abuse it’s their fault?

Differentforgirls · 02/02/2026 15:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lillitut · 02/02/2026 14:39

Differentforgirls · 02/02/2026 12:03

I haven’t. I said the same to other poster moaning.

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are you saying that those who get anti-English bigotry thrown in their face are asking for it? Are you 12? Totally disgusting attitude trying to down play a totally disgusting attitude that is widespread in Scotland.

Feelthebreezeofthehebrides · 02/02/2026 14:10

Shakeoffyourchains · 01/02/2026 17:23

Because they’re realistically the only party that stands a chance of getting us out of the lying Union.

Scotland makes up around 7–8% of the UK population, yet we have: 32% of the UK’s land mass, 62% of its maritime area, 33% of its arable land, 61% of timber production, 85% of oil and gas reserves, 90% of freshwater, 67% of fish landings, and around 25% of Europe’s offshore energy potential, alongside world-renowned industries, products, and expertise in emerging sectors.

And yet we’re constantly told by unionists that we’re too stupid, too poor, and too small to succeed as an independent nation.

Remember back in 2014, when the unionists told us oil and gas was finished, that it was unreliable, and that an independent Scotland couldn’t possibly depend on it? Fast forward 12 years and, miraculously, the oil and gas reserves have refilled themselves and are now central to the energy policy of the UK’s right-wing parties. Let’s also not forget that an independent Scotland would be 100% energy self-sufficient and a net exporter. But inside the Union, we somehow pay more for the energy we produce than consumers in the rest of the UK.

So yeah, I'll have no choice but to vote for them until one of the other parties with a chance of winning puts Scottish independence on their agenda.

The SNP can’t decide what they want with regards to oil exploration.
Nicola Sturgeon when she was first Minister wanted a transition away from oil and gas . They established a presumption against new oil and gas development hoping to transition towards renewable energy. This is resulting in reduced investment and loss of jobs . Thousands of jobs lost in the oil and gas industry.. but the SNP are happy to import oil and gas . Not enough jobs so far in renewables to make up for the loss