To wonder why people keep voting SNP?

What did you mean when you said: "They also take more tax off the better off to pay for it all."? I took it that you meant that higher rate tax payers deserve benefits like free travel and free prescriptions too because they contribute more in tax. The challenge is that by spending that money on providing those benefits for all it means that there is less money available to tackle poverty. Apologies if that's not what you meant.

Ok P.

I can’t believe you said that to me.

Starting what?

When are they starting that?

Fair enough, if you're happy for poverty to continue to exist there is no reason to question universal benefits.

You sound like the people in the fancy housing estate near me who argue that because they pay more council tax than others they deserve better services even if that is to the detriment of the other areas who don't generate as much tax...

I have no problem with universal benefits tbh.

It could be worst... Some governments will target their resources at protecting their own interests and benefiting the most wealthy in society to the detriment of others. Universality isn't the worst. It's just not the best way to to tackle poverty and inequality, which has always been one of SNP's main objectives.

They also take more tax off the better off to pay for it all.

You realise that any government is not responsible for providing everything for every citizen? They are responsible for making decisions about how to best use the resources available to them and the SNP have decided to go down the road of universality for a lot of these things rather a redistributive approach which would target those most in need.

Actually free school meals are already targeted based on income for kids in P6 and above.

There are but the SNP are responsible for every citizen.

Well that’s good surely? SNP have a balancing act. All people who pay taxes should benefit from them. Also, children who are born into better off families aren’t necessarily better off emotionally. Look at the ones who are put in nurseries all day from 9 months old. Hence universal benefits.

Targeted based on household income. Only houses with an income below a certain level would get access to free school meals, baby boxes, free prescriptions, free travel etc instead of those benefits being available to everyone. We already do it with things like the Scottish Child Payment, Educational Maintenance Allowance, Best Start Grants, school clothing grants so there are various mechanisms to deliver it.

Targeted how. Genuine question.

I agreed with that argument 20 years ago, but most schools now use prepaid accounts which are either loaded up by parents using an online portal or the free school meal benefit is applied so there is no way of telling which kids are getting free school meals and which are being paid for by their parents in the classroom or the dinner hall.

@GlasgowGal2014 yep, I agree with you there. And it's fair enough that you raise it - after all parties should be held to account and not just blindly followed. I stopped voting SNP for a few years due to an issue I had with a previous policy. Always good to keep a critical eye.

Like you I support the ethos of the party, but I also feel let down because I don't think they've used the levers that they do have access to to full effect. I don't think our politics are very far apart and I'm not enamoured with any political party either, and would really like to avoid the rise of Reform in Scotland. We've just got a difference of opinion on whether benefits should be applied universally or whether they are better targeted on those most in need.

Fair enough, I didn't see the earlier post. Yes they have and what a shame that so much time and spending has to be put into mitigating these awful policies versus eliminating the poverty you speak of. And yet you criticise them for not eliminating poverty? Really? You must surely see that without control of all the necessary levers within an independent Scotland this can never be possible. Something has got to give when you're always being pulled in the direction of prevention rather than directing the country to thrive instead.

As it happens, I'm not thrilled by any political party at the moment but I 1) still believe in independence and 2) support many of their policies like baby boxes, free prescriptions etc for all which you seem to disagree with. So to address the OP I support many of their long standing policies and importance placed on social care generally, so while I disagree with other things I will still vote for them over any other nonsense at the ballot box. Reform, Labour...you could weep.

The two child limit, the benefit cap, the benefits freeze and below inflation increases, the bedroom tax, benefits sanctions, scrapping housing benefit for most under 21s, the five week wait for universal credit, need I go on?

It also looks like another middle class photo op to me...

I don't know, but 24% of children in Scotland live in poverty and uptake of the baby boxes is over 90%.