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AIBU to think if you're a net negative in tax you shouldn't be able to vote?

959 replies

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 13:21

Trigger warning: strong political views / rant incoming. A shrinking group is expected to fund an expanding system. The system increasingly penalises work while rewarding dependency.

AIBU to think the modern state is a parasite, and that only those who are a net positive in taxes should be able to vote, rather than forcing working people to support an ever-growing dependent class?

Currently ~21% of working-age adults are economically inactive, meaning not working and not actively seeking work (according to a research brief from the House of Commons). Democracy is broken if voters can vote themselves benefits paid for by others. Representation should be weighted toward those with demonstrable responsibility and contribution.

Currently, the state is extractive and hollowing out the middle class. As anyone that has the eyes to see and ears to hear will know, dependency is rising and and demographics are changing at a rate not seen outside of wartime.

To address this simply, I think if you’re on benefits you should lose the right to vote until you’re a net positive. That would restore equilibrium.

This is essentially Chesterton’s test of a society.

"An honest man falls in love with an honest woman. He wishes, therefore, to marry her, to be the father of her children, to secure her and himself. All systems of government should be tested by whether he can do this.

If any system, feudal, servile, or barbaric, does in fact give him enough land, work, or security that he can do it, there is the essence of liberty and justice.

If any system, Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Green, Reform, or technocratic, does in fact give him wages so low and conditions so insecure that he cannot do it, there is the essence of tyranny and shame."

If the state could stop turning people into dependents that working people have to pay for, that would be great. The state is bloated, fixated on wealth redistribution rather than wealth creation, and actively working against the people it is meant to represent. It is incapable of creating the conditions for wealth, stability, and independence. This is managed decline, and we need some adults in the room who have read a book. AIBU?

OP posts:
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SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:10

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 12/01/2026 14:08

Guessing OP is a man.
This undemocratic attitude shows a reduced level of empathy.

apologies to all the other guys on here but it’s been proved men have less empathy than women

Are you assuming my gender?

OP posts:
Swissmeringue · 12/01/2026 14:10

I've got questions about this proposition.

How do we work out who is giving and who is taking? So, for example. My husband earns in the middle six figures and is absolutely a contributor. But I don't work, does half of our children's schooling and our NHS usage count against my "account"? Does that make me ineligible to vote? Or do we count as a unit?

Also, our children are healthy and have no additional needs, so there aren't huge costs associated with their medical care and schooling. If there were, regardless of the over 100k he's paying in tax a year do we count as "drains on society" and therefore lose our vote?

Do we get "credits" if we use private school or healthcare? Are we gonna work out how far everyone drives in a year so we can work out precisely how much pothole damage they are responsible for?

Do parents need to earn more in order to be able to vote as kids take up more state resources?

Obviously I think this is all a terrible idea. I appreciate that our economy is screwed, I really do, but no, I don't think conditional democracy is the answer.

Kirbert2 · 12/01/2026 14:10

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:08

A lack of imagination may impact your earning potential.

You're right.

Nothing at all to do with having a disabled child.

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:09

Rewis · 12/01/2026 14:09

Do you have to earn the right to vote? Once you're 18, you will be net negative for how much public money have been used towards you so once you've paid back the first 18 yesrs do you then get a vote?

Blank slate at 18. You get everything free before 18.

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 12/01/2026 14:09

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:02

Education would be free for under 18, and free for over education within reasonable constraints. You can have a welfare stats but you can't vote if you take welfare until you're net positive. You need to EARN it. I know the idea of earning something rather than it being a right is unusual... but consider it.

Perhaps, if you're served in the army you'll be exempt.

You haven't thought this through. Everyone pays tax in one way or another. That your income comes from benefits (e.g. state pension, universal credit etc) is irrelevant. You will pay tax whenever you buy something, pay a bill and bear in mind that almost all benefits are based on having paid into the system (children uner 18 excepted), they are not 'free',

Your plan would also cause the NHS to be privatised, along with most of the remaining infrastructure of the country, because the people allowed to vote would vote to do so - because they don't anymore want to pay for those who need these services and they can afford to insure themselves and their families.

BlackCatDiscoClub · 12/01/2026 14:09

I've decided that only people who receive benefits from the government are allowed to vote. Everyone else gets to vote with their money in the free market by purchasing goods and services.

Edit: I see your goad, I raise you two goads

NeverDropYourMooncup · 12/01/2026 14:09

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:02

Education would be free for under 18, and free for over education within reasonable constraints. You can have a welfare stats but you can't vote if you take welfare until you're net positive. You need to EARN it. I know the idea of earning something rather than it being a right is unusual... but consider it.

Perhaps, if you're served in the army you'll be exempt.

Like the Roman Republic, you mean?

Rewis · 12/01/2026 14:09

Do you have to earn the right to vote? Once you're 18, you will be net negative for how much public money have been used towards you so once you've paid back the first 18 yesrs do you then get a vote?

BrownTroutBluesAgain · 12/01/2026 14:08

Guessing OP is a man.
This undemocratic attitude shows a reduced level of empathy.

apologies to all the other guys on here but it’s been proved men have less empathy than women

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:08

Kirbert2 · 12/01/2026 14:07

Yep.

I can't imagine how much it would actually cost for carers etc to look after my son.

A lack of imagination may impact your earning potential.

OP posts:
SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:07

That paper is a rag. Just saying.

OP posts:
Kirbert2 · 12/01/2026 14:07

Theunamedcat · 12/01/2026 14:03

That's fine instead of your taxes paying me to look after disabled family members (plural so your getting a bargain in you £86 taxable income a week) you can pay that and then some a day for carers to come in

I would love the break a 40 hour working week would give me

Yep.

I can't imagine how much it would actually cost for carers etc to look after my son.

Periperi2025 · 12/01/2026 14:07

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:03

If we managed the country better we'd improve your circumstances.

But where's the incentive to manage the country better with regards to the poorer part of the population of they can't vote to change anything anyway? You may as well leave them to fester!

tilypu · 12/01/2026 14:07

I actually think the idea has some merit, in that it would be a fairly good job creation scheme. The amount of admin it would take to calculate every individuals net tax position would be pretty onerous. It would mean taxes would need to be higher to pay for this new department though.

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:07

Grammarnut · 12/01/2026 14:04

So you think people who have the state pension should not be able to vote? That is included as a benefit. People who have paid taxes all their lives, earned that pension by paying for it through taxes and who have worked all their lives?
The vote cannot depend on whether you are economically active, rich or poor, clever, intelligent, educated or ignorant. It is the mark of being a citizen and all citizens have the right to exercise it (or not, in the UK - I think I might approve of making voting a legal requirement, with, of course, an abstention box on the ballot paper). Being poor, disabled, out of work etc cannot be a disqualification - and all those people will be paying tax.
What is your contribution to the common weal btw?

You know how to do maths right? If you're net positive you get to vote... at the point you've taken more than you've paid in then you're exchanging your vote for that help.

OP posts:
JanuaryJasmine · 12/01/2026 14:07

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:00

Interesting...

What??

Octavia64 · 12/01/2026 14:06

A birth in an nhs hospital costs between 7-14 thousand depending on complexity.

state education is between 3-5 thousand a year.

so everyone (except private school kids, private births are more unusual) would owe a minimum of 46k in tax before they could vote.

and that’s assuming no nhs use at all as a child.

private school kids could vote quicker than state school kids?

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:06

Brefugee · 12/01/2026 14:04

Perhaps, if you're served in the army you'll be exempt.

assuming you mean "military" I'm alright then. Phew! But. Judging by some of the people i served with, the country will be right in the shit.

Yes, military. Thank you for your services (or your family member).

OP posts:
SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:06

tilypu · 12/01/2026 14:04

Where do you stand with local government employees, councillors, MPs and the like, and civil servants?

Their income comes from taxes, so do they forego the right to vote should their tax bill be lower than their earnings from the public purse?

You're exempt if you've served in the army. Everyone else has to be a net positive. You could persuade me teachers and NHS should qualify but people in this thread may feel I'm being a bit wishy washy. Def NOT civil servants and 100% not politicians.

OP posts:
SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 14:04

BlackCatDiscoClub · 12/01/2026 14:01

Well now you've said that I've decided that people who call other adults children don't get to vote.

That's your subjective opinion, however, whether you've a net positive or negative on the rest of society is an objective fact. If we want to encourage positive outcomes let's reward people with the right to vote. Same with people wanting to be a citizen of this country.

OP posts:
tilypu · 12/01/2026 14:04

Where do you stand with local government employees, councillors, MPs and the like, and civil servants?

Their income comes from taxes, so do they forego the right to vote should their tax bill be lower than their earnings from the public purse?

Brefugee · 12/01/2026 14:04

Perhaps, if you're served in the army you'll be exempt.

assuming you mean "military" I'm alright then. Phew! But. Judging by some of the people i served with, the country will be right in the shit.

Grammarnut · 12/01/2026 14:04

So you think people who have the state pension should not be able to vote? That is included as a benefit. People who have paid taxes all their lives, earned that pension by paying for it through taxes and who have worked all their lives?
The vote cannot depend on whether you are economically active, rich or poor, clever, intelligent, educated or ignorant. It is the mark of being a citizen and all citizens have the right to exercise it (or not, in the UK - I think I might approve of making voting a legal requirement, with, of course, an abstention box on the ballot paper). Being poor, disabled, out of work etc cannot be a disqualification - and all those people will be paying tax.
What is your contribution to the common weal btw?

JanuaryJasmine · 12/01/2026 14:04

JanuaryJasmine · 12/01/2026 14:01

Definitely

@SBGM247 why have you 'thumbs up/agreed' with my post? You agree you're being goady?

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