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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think if you're a net negative in tax you shouldn't be able to vote?

959 replies

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 13:21

Trigger warning: strong political views / rant incoming. A shrinking group is expected to fund an expanding system. The system increasingly penalises work while rewarding dependency.

AIBU to think the modern state is a parasite, and that only those who are a net positive in taxes should be able to vote, rather than forcing working people to support an ever-growing dependent class?

Currently ~21% of working-age adults are economically inactive, meaning not working and not actively seeking work (according to a research brief from the House of Commons). Democracy is broken if voters can vote themselves benefits paid for by others. Representation should be weighted toward those with demonstrable responsibility and contribution.

Currently, the state is extractive and hollowing out the middle class. As anyone that has the eyes to see and ears to hear will know, dependency is rising and and demographics are changing at a rate not seen outside of wartime.

To address this simply, I think if you’re on benefits you should lose the right to vote until you’re a net positive. That would restore equilibrium.

This is essentially Chesterton’s test of a society.

"An honest man falls in love with an honest woman. He wishes, therefore, to marry her, to be the father of her children, to secure her and himself. All systems of government should be tested by whether he can do this.

If any system, feudal, servile, or barbaric, does in fact give him enough land, work, or security that he can do it, there is the essence of liberty and justice.

If any system, Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Green, Reform, or technocratic, does in fact give him wages so low and conditions so insecure that he cannot do it, there is the essence of tyranny and shame."

If the state could stop turning people into dependents that working people have to pay for, that would be great. The state is bloated, fixated on wealth redistribution rather than wealth creation, and actively working against the people it is meant to represent. It is incapable of creating the conditions for wealth, stability, and independence. This is managed decline, and we need some adults in the room who have read a book. AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
ElectoralControversy · 13/01/2026 07:40

To be fair, with the poll he has shown that around 20% of people will vote for quasi-Nazi policies without thinking through the implications, the practicalities, or whether the leopards will actually eat their faces. Which is interesting info

Er, wasn't that around the percentage Reform vote in that MN poll recently?

Anyway, it goes to show the importance of using your vote.

And yes OP, it is a horrible thread because you're trying to sell us the idea that people on low salaries or with high medical needs are second class citizens - an idea that has plenty of purchase out there as it is. Not funny when it hurts real people - hate crimes against the disabled are all too common already.

Justthethingsthatyoudointhisgarden · 13/01/2026 07:14

Are you stupid or just a really nasty piece of work? Maybe you're a journalist, given the press Mumsnet has received recently for being in the majority in favour of Reform? Whatever the reason for this post, you need to get out and do some voluntary work.

I'm not easily offended by the way. I do think you are trying to intellectualise hate speech. You sound like you think you are above everyone in the room. A nazi with a high IQ.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 13/01/2026 07:09

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 22:13

Are these people in the room with you right now?

Ah, OK. I thought this was real discussion. Now I see it's just a piss take.

Strumpetpumpet · 13/01/2026 07:00

Presumably in order to check if someone is “net positive”, you’d need to see how much they’ve “taken out” of the system too - so how many doctors appointments, hospital procedures, have they ever needed to use the police, fire service, education etc, how often they use roads, infrastructure etc.
Apart from it being a totally monstrous idea, it would be incredibly complicated to work out

TheaBrandt1 · 13/01/2026 06:46

Putting aside personal circumstances surely most recognise there is an issue with the ballooning welfare state. Most reasonable people want to ensure the vulnerable and temporarily unemployed are supported. But now whole swathes of the population are on UC and a smaller and smaller group of taxpayers supporting them are buckling under the strain.

Don’t agree with ops drastic solution but this is an issue. The low wage economy meaning those in work need top ups from the state is surely not right. I am not a clever economist so hope someone (hopefully Keir Starmer) has a solution.

SBGM247 · 13/01/2026 06:29

Hmmtheplant · 13/01/2026 01:38

Apologies for the ad hominem, but the sadness of seeing this many people (the yanbu voters that is), fail to appreciate what democracy actually means/is, made me too weary to even bother trying to argue about it on this thread.

Good morning @Hmmtheplant . Great book "Democracy, the God that failed' by Hans-Hermann Hoppe is a great read.

OP posts:
SBGM247 · 13/01/2026 06:25

NorthXNorthWest · 13/01/2026 00:26

Whilst I don't take the OPs position I don't think they have shown any less empathy than the 'screw anyone who earns more than 40k or lives in a big house' brigade.

This country is short on empathy and personal responsibly but positively overdosing on jealousy and entitlement.

Edited

Thanks. For what it's worth I think highly of everyone in this thread and wish them every success. My understanding of empathy is it's theory of mind, the ability to model another's mind. It doesn't mean I must agree. And as I lived in a very deprived area and nothing was given to me, I feel like it's a little unfair for others to suggest I don't care. My intent really is to have a bit of a rant about the state and the fact it is building a dependancy class that's reliant on it. If people are genuinely offended by this discussion then the problem they have is that they're easily offended over nothing.

OP posts:
Sharptonguedwoman · 13/01/2026 05:55

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 22:29

Yes, like I want them to drive but to stop when they don't know what they're doing anymore

This must be a wind up.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 13/01/2026 02:46

Hmmtheplant · 13/01/2026 01:26

Your ignorance of society and how people behave is astounding, this sounds like something a teenager would say (who has very little knowledge of the world, and indeed also lacks empathy due to their still developing brains).

Exactly. Sounds about 16

RichardTemplethatbeatingRythm · 13/01/2026 01:46

Hmmtheplant · 13/01/2026 01:38

Apologies for the ad hominem, but the sadness of seeing this many people (the yanbu voters that is), fail to appreciate what democracy actually means/is, made me too weary to even bother trying to argue about it on this thread.

It's an ignorant hypothetical that isn't going to happen.
Like you I CBA arguing ..I'm oot o here.👍

Hmmtheplant · 13/01/2026 01:38

Hmmtheplant · 13/01/2026 01:26

Your ignorance of society and how people behave is astounding, this sounds like something a teenager would say (who has very little knowledge of the world, and indeed also lacks empathy due to their still developing brains).

Apologies for the ad hominem, but the sadness of seeing this many people (the yanbu voters that is), fail to appreciate what democracy actually means/is, made me too weary to even bother trying to argue about it on this thread.

RichardTemplethatbeatingRythm · 13/01/2026 01:31

itsthetea · 12/01/2026 13:27

Why not just shoot anyone who doesn’t have enough money ? Shoot anyone rather than pay for hospitals. Make life much cheaper

Wasn't there a guy that done this in 30s/40s Europe.
Op is at it or bonkers.

Hmmtheplant · 13/01/2026 01:26

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 13:21

Trigger warning: strong political views / rant incoming. A shrinking group is expected to fund an expanding system. The system increasingly penalises work while rewarding dependency.

AIBU to think the modern state is a parasite, and that only those who are a net positive in taxes should be able to vote, rather than forcing working people to support an ever-growing dependent class?

Currently ~21% of working-age adults are economically inactive, meaning not working and not actively seeking work (according to a research brief from the House of Commons). Democracy is broken if voters can vote themselves benefits paid for by others. Representation should be weighted toward those with demonstrable responsibility and contribution.

Currently, the state is extractive and hollowing out the middle class. As anyone that has the eyes to see and ears to hear will know, dependency is rising and and demographics are changing at a rate not seen outside of wartime.

To address this simply, I think if you’re on benefits you should lose the right to vote until you’re a net positive. That would restore equilibrium.

This is essentially Chesterton’s test of a society.

"An honest man falls in love with an honest woman. He wishes, therefore, to marry her, to be the father of her children, to secure her and himself. All systems of government should be tested by whether he can do this.

If any system, feudal, servile, or barbaric, does in fact give him enough land, work, or security that he can do it, there is the essence of liberty and justice.

If any system, Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Green, Reform, or technocratic, does in fact give him wages so low and conditions so insecure that he cannot do it, there is the essence of tyranny and shame."

If the state could stop turning people into dependents that working people have to pay for, that would be great. The state is bloated, fixated on wealth redistribution rather than wealth creation, and actively working against the people it is meant to represent. It is incapable of creating the conditions for wealth, stability, and independence. This is managed decline, and we need some adults in the room who have read a book. AIBU?

Your ignorance of society and how people behave is astounding, this sounds like something a teenager would say (who has very little knowledge of the world, and indeed also lacks empathy due to their still developing brains).

NorthXNorthWest · 13/01/2026 00:26

Whilst I don't take the OPs position I don't think they have shown any less empathy than the 'screw anyone who earns more than 40k or lives in a big house' brigade.

This country is short on empathy and personal responsibly but positively overdosing on jealousy and entitlement.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 12/01/2026 23:55

ilovesooty · 12/01/2026 23:50

I'm not interested in what the OP does. He could tell us anything "for the lolz" anyway. It wouldn't affect how unpleasant and callous his posts are.

And short on brain.

Could someone with an education think like this? I never taught anyone who did. Maybe a few around the edges. And not from the brightest ever.

ilovesooty · 12/01/2026 23:54

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 23:52

675 have voted. 21% agree with me.

So?

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 23:52

ilovesooty · 12/01/2026 23:50

I'm not interested in what the OP does. He could tell us anything "for the lolz" anyway. It wouldn't affect how unpleasant and callous his posts are.

675 have voted. 21% agree with me.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 12/01/2026 23:50

I'm not interested in what the OP does. He could tell us anything "for the lolz" anyway. It wouldn't affect how unpleasant and callous his posts are.

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 23:45

SixtySomething · 12/01/2026 23:38

OT is a temporary code. What are you trying to tell us?
As I said, the laugh is on you, OP

0T isn't just a temp code. 0T means no personal allowance applied.

OP posts:
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 12/01/2026 23:39

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 23:33

What do you do?

Edited

Ha ha ha. I’m retired on a teachers pension. And on pip!

Paid tax since the age of 15. Still paying it now.

SixtySomething · 12/01/2026 23:38

OT is a temporary code. What are you trying to tell us?
As I said, the laugh is on you, OP

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 23:33

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 12/01/2026 23:28

I want to know what job where you pay 55% tax lets you sit on a chat board all day.

55% my arse. I smell Incel round here.

What do you do?

OP posts:
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 12/01/2026 23:28

I want to know what job where you pay 55% tax lets you sit on a chat board all day.

55% my arse. I smell Incel round here.

TheCompactPussycat · 12/01/2026 23:21

SBGM247 · 12/01/2026 23:09

We've edged up to 21% now. That's almost 140 brave souls in agreement with me.

It's hardly brave to click a button and add an entirely anonymous vote is it.

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