To think mainstream education is failing SEN students

My dd is 15 and “should” be in year 10.

she hasn’t been to school since October 16th 2023 which was at the start of year 8.
NOBODY from the LA has been out to see her, despite being told that they would be visiting once per academic year. She was diagnosed with ASD aged 12 just a couple of weeks before her last day and the school were useless.

dd was in top set, very academic and well behaved and didn’t cause any problems at school so she didn’t meet the criteria for an EHCP despite being too anxious to attend school a lot of year 7 pre diagnosis. She had so many struggles and I was forever emailing the Senco who never once replied to me. Once her diagnosis came through I sent it over to school by email and they didn’t even acknowledge it.

Dd became so severely anxious she couldn’t leave the house and I was summoned to the LA for an interview under caution and made to feel like a criminal, was threatened with fines, prosecution and prison and finally got to meet the school Senco who showed up to also put pressure on me to get her back to school.

I reluctantly removed her from school to home educate and made it very clear on the email that I had been backed into a corner. I feel she was thoroughly let down. My older dc went to the same school ( he’s autistic too ) and they were great with him but he’s got different needs and there’s been a change in leadership since.

there should be more schools that bridge the gap between mainstream and sen schools. We have one sen school in our borough and i was told she was “far too able” to attend there anyway.

I feel she’s missed out on so much more than learning and we can never get that back. Sorry for such a long post.

Teacher with 25+ years experience across mainstream and sen.

My last mainstream got it right for the majority of SEN pupils.

Some of my SEN school pupils belong in mainstream.

Many pupils are turned away as there aren't enough spaces in the SEN school. When we're forced to accept them via tribunal, every other child in the school then has a worse deal as resources are spread even thinner.

The system is broken. There will never be enough money from government to meet all the different needs of all students being taught.

That is really sad. The 9 yo you taught sounds like my autistic DC, although he is younger. He understands so much more than he communicates and I see so much potential, it's sad to think that staff at school could think that way about him. They're never going to directly say that to a parent, but I have had a teacher tell me they don't force him to sit. I thought it was for his wellbeing but now wonder if they have just given up.
I've had a conversation with the SENCO about specialist provision,she said it might suit him better but that's the parents choice. When I said well it isn't really my choice, you will need to say his needs can't be met in mainstream she said she couldn't evidence his needs aren't met.

I agree as a teacher and a parent.

Training can only go so far. The problem is you can have the most well trained and experienced teacher in a class, but they are just one person.

Even if they’ve eg come from a special school where they were an amazing teacher with a class of 9 pupils with high red , if you moved that same person into a mainstream class of 30 with 3 pupils with ASD, 3 with ADHD, some with learning difficulties, toileting needs etc etc, they are still expected to meet every child’s academic needs, sensory needs, speech needs, emotional needs etc and teach the full curriculum despite having a significant number who can’t access it on their own. What’s happening is that teachers are just unable to manage it, feel failures and break-not wanting to teach any more.

I agree but it's not just the SEN kids being failed. The schools are so stretched that all available help obviously gets used for SEN students, meaning there are never any TAs etc available for NT pupils who are struggling.

So many of them are failing exams they could have passed with just a tiny bit of extra help.

It isn't that simple though, is it? You can't generalise. Some children can't cope in mainstream but some can and do with extra support.

My son actually has 2:1 support and absolutely should be in mainstream. With the support he gets, he is doing well.

Good thing really since even with 2:1 support, he'd be lucky to get a place in special school.

If a child is taking up more than 1/30th of the teachers time then they should be in a more suitable environment. The current system is not fair on either the kids with sen or the kids whose learning is being disrupted by pupils whose more complex needs are being met. I’ve no idea what the solution is.

A child with 1:1 needs should not be in mainstream school. That's the problem.

This is idealistic but impossible in mainstream.

A neurodivergent child is just that, one child.

In most classes I work in as supply (primary) there will be around 5 who need significant intervention according to an ehcp (manageable unless the adjustments oppose each other) another 7 or 8 who do not have an ehcp, but parents think they should (and whose behaviour is usually nightmarish) and around 15 or 16 who simply have to get on with tolerating disruption whilst trying to learn from a ridiculous curriculum.

It is an absolute shit show, which I can leave behind me at the end of the day, or the week. But teacher strikes seem to be on the horizon, and I honestly believe that once the economy is on the up again teacher retention will become an even greater issue than it is now, and it is terrible now.

The main reason that I left teaching was being unable to cope on my own with the amount of need in the class. Far too much need, zero extra resources. I was done working till midnight every night trying to come up with perfect lessons to include everyone. It's impossible as a classroom teacher.

Some children with SEND, who struggle with accessing main stream school, have parents who also struggle to engage with educational opportunities.

You seem to have missed out a huge chunk which is behaviour. When it comes to dealing with a child who can not regulate daily, be in a classroom or partake an hour in class you have to choose that child. When you’re filling any learning gaps it’s children who should be further along but have had a lot of disruption during lessons. They have the catch ups and interventions.

This leaves your SEN child who actually has a ehcp falling behind. Because they quietly fall under the radar.

As a therapist having just left working in schools I feel what is needed is- . Staff training of neurodiverse , conditions ( and some physical and mental and health conditions training) with a trauma informed approach ( essential) . A safe place for children to regulate with support ( awareness of individual needs here) . Adjustments in learning environments and teaching styles for those who struggle and support/ a place to be when needed , which is staffed with trained knowledgable staff. Also support for families who are also trying to support the children to learn - a joined up approach. Key worker staff for students who struggle , who take responsibility and design care plans that are person centred . Stop fining parents if the children does not attend if struggling . Sadly this is all v costly

Of course it is!

Supply at 30 different schools is a good stint. How long were you a qualified teacher in secondary? What subject?

Yanbu. The whole system needs an overhaul imo. I don't think it's doing great for non send kids either these days.

My ASD child has very basic needs. A calm classroom, an orderly school with good standards of behaviour and to be stretched academically. We’re in Scotland, famed for having no discipline or consequences for bad behaviour whatsoever. In the end my child flatly refused to go. The violence and constant random disruption - loud screaming, punching, swearing etc were just too distressing.

We moved them to mainstream private where they’ve been perfectly happy from the moment they stepped through the door. EVERY child who can follow the rules should have access to a similarly calm, orderly education. You shouldn’t have to spend tens of thousands a year to buy it. It’s basic stuff. So many SEN children are failed by a schools inability to provide safeguarding and calm while stretching them academically.

YANBU (and it’s failing many others as well).

Anyone who voted otherwise is ignorant of the academic reality.

I agree with PP who say that mainstream education is failing many pupils currently, both with and without SEND. Academically average to good children who are extroverted and emotionally resilient are probably fine in most schools. But children who, for SEND reasons or otherwise, are academically either weaker or extremely advanced, introverted, sensitive, emotionally young for their ages, or with sensory processing differences, are going to struggle in the majority of schools. It's one of the reasons I think the current government's hostility to private schooling is harmful. It is very difficult for schools to meet the needs of all children. Some children thrive in classrooms with busy walls and lots of collaborative work, but others need quieter, more traditional spaces and teaching approaches. I wish we had a government that looked for ways to give parents more choice rather than actively working to restrict choice and homogenise the national educational offering as much as possible.

I think it vastly depends on the child and their needs. I argued successfully for one of my children to be in mainstream and not the resource base as they wouldn't have had a chance to take formal qualifications through the base and the teaching was aimed at children who have learning disabilities (my child is ND with a high IQ). Their needs are met without needing a 1:1 however (just a slightly altered timetable and access to a calm space).

I agree with you about the education system failing SEN children massively. In terms of your example of the 9 year old child, it depends whether the efforts you were making were disproportionately affecting your teaching of the rest of the class - I’m not saying that is the case. I think you were put in a very difficult position of trying to manage your obligations to this child and to the rest of the class, but without knowing more detail it is hard to comment on whether SLT right to be concerned. Clearly their wording of their concern was pretty shitty regardless.

All students are let down by current inclusion policy. It’s no good for Sen pupils and that also leads to disruption for other Pupils.

Then add the just cheeky pupils who schools don’t seem to want to deal with either because of loud mouth parents and more suffering some of which will be triggering some of the Sen pupils as well as more distractions.

Children with asd often need more 1.1 support. Even with good training many teachers in mainstream classes cannot provide what is needed because they are stretched too thin. They are trying to help 30 children learn. They simply cannot be both TA and teacher. In most secondary schools there are hardly any TAs in class.

I think without proper training and space and materials most mainstream schools are going to struggle to provide the type of schooling that SEN children need.

I think there needs to be sen training and understanding for mainstream teachers. On a large scale but I also just don’t think most schools are equipped to deal with the large scale mix of needs across a spectrum of SEN in one classroom. It’s not fair to all involved.

I think the whole system is failing SEN kids at the moment. I have an autistic PDA son with an EHCP in a specialist school, which is very nurturing but falls short on academics and an autistic daughter with no EHCP, in a mainstream academy where the focus is only academics! My daughter hasn’t set foot in school since the 14th November. No safeguarding visits, no one from school has seen her or asked to see her. She and I both know that because she can’t achieve the IB school don’t really want her there but the LA initially refused to assess for the EHCP and we’re about to submit our tribunal pack for refusal to issue, as they state her needs can be met in mainstream, which they can’t because she’s too anxious to attend.