Labour Voters. Honest question

Well they did a press conference and lots of publicity around their economic plans (https://www.tax.org.uk/reform-uk-tax-nov25), I guess now it’s looking like they will form the next Government. You were giving the impression that you were quite well informed in their economic plans as you have some strong opinions about it, which wouldn’t make sense if you are actually ignorant of their plans.

Unemployment has increased but not by 20%. The rate when they came to power was around 4.6%, now it's around 5.1%.

You could frame that either as a 0.5% increase (e.g. the rate is now 0.5% higher) or as an ~11% increase.

It's like how an increase from 1% to 2% is either a 1% increase or a 100% increase, depending on how you frame it.

Monthly redundancies are up from 4.3% to 5.3%, so either a 1% increase or a 23% increase, depending on what you mean.

Labour ought to shoulder a significant amount of the blame for the increases- I think the NIC increase is a meaningful driver. That said, if they didn't raise tax by NIC then they'd have to have increased taxes elsewhere (truthfully, that's probably what they should have done - they boxed themselves in with their pre election pledges, leaving them left with a tax that runs contrary to their stated aim to deliver growth). They might have got away with it of the global economy were stronger.

If there’s no open border policies, how can people traverse our borders without paperwork?
This is flat out daft. Its like saying "if murder is illegal, how come there are murders?"

Labour have tightened immigration controls.

On Blasphemy Laws you are citing an old article. The story is that Labour's attempt to introduce non-statory guidance on what is (and is not) Islamophobia might amount to a blasphemy law via the backdoor. However, the working group tasked with looking at this issue seem to have accepted that a definition of "Islamophobia" (if used to guide law enforcement around hate crimes) could impinge on criticism of Islam as a belief system and so appear to have shelved the idea, and are instead working on a definition of "anti-Muslim hate" - e.g. hate speech directed at people, not at the faith itself.

On Decolonise the curriculum, you are citing a 2020 article from a local, labour council in Lewisham as if it were current government policy.

No shit, Sherlock. Strangely that was the last manifesto Reform produced. It’s been quite shy about its “policies” since then but it’s unlikely to have magically become economic geniuses in the last year.

Oh I see, no we wouldn’t be able to vote in the 2024 election as it’s in the past.

What ? The first gulf war started August 1990

I haven’t seen the 50k health worker one, do you have a link to it?

It’s actually even more bonkers than I remembered as no limit is specified.

• All frontline NHS and social care staff to pay zero basic rate tax for 3 years.

www.tax.org.uk/general-election-2024-reform-uk-propose-big-cuts-in-income-inheritance-and-corporation-taxes

Labour’s problems are:

-Their resentment based ideology
-Their policies
-Their hypocrisy when it comes to their own lives

I haven’t seen the 50k health worker one, do you have a link to it?

£20k tax threshold is a brilliant idea I think personally, it should be around £16k anyway without fiscal drag. It would encourage people into work and away from benefits. It’s forecast to cost a an average Rachel black hole, but would be amazing for working people (actual working people, not labour definition).

Put some extra notes on for you.

-Unemployment up 20% ( unemployment/number of unemployed as a percentage of the labor force)
-Monthly redundancy averages up 32% (average number of people made redundant each month)
-You were right on the independent schools,
-If there’s no open border policies, how can people traverse our borders without paperwork?
-Blasphemy laws: https://www.newstatesman.com/thestaggers/2024/11/there-is-no-place-for-blasphemy-laws-in-the-labour-party
-Decolonise the curriculum (straight from Labour);https://www.lewishamlabour.com/decolonising-the-curriculum/
-As for your crass comment about committing suicide before Labours generational farm
raid, did you expect them to wait until after? I think you’ve shown the true face of hardcore Labour supporters with that comment. https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-tragic-death-sparks-inheritance-tax-outrage

Labour's main, immediate problems are:

• that the UK was already in a very difficult economic spot (only partially self-inflicted) and the incumbent government usually suffers, regardless of fault;

• not only do we have the same old right-wing dominated press, but now right-wing social media platforms that go beyond bias into misinformation;

• they a moderate in an age whether voters are becoming more polarized; and

• Starmer is a poor communicator.

I'd vote for them again, as the least bad viable option. I'd love to see something more transformational and forward thinking in terms of a concrete plan to deliver a more equitable society, but all I see further to the left (and further to the right, too) is ideological fantasy.

It’s bizarre at this stage given Labour’s approval rating that anyone still posts ‘intern’ or whatever stuff on here.

Could you tell me in the short time they’ve been in power - bearing in mind the damage they were left with after 14 years - what they have done so far that you feel so strongly about and were you genuinely expecting them to sort the countries debt and other problems out in a few months? People were already moaning after they’d been in power for 12 weeks 🤣
There are many great things they’ve accomplished so far (listed above) and many more to come, but the one close to my heart is that knife crime and serious violent crime is dramatically down.

I absolutely can’t vote Tory or reform. I would probs vote Green although I don’t fully align with all their values, if not then probably labour.

Agree! And I wish people who consider themselves left would stop doing it! It's self indulgent grandstanding; do they want a Reform government?!

I voted Lib Dem’s as a tactical vote but my heart was with Labour

yes I’d vote again for Labour to be in power. Because the Tories are old news - Reform is the alternative and that’s way scarier

The promise to cut taxes by £90bn was a corker but even Farage realised that was, shall we say, a little unrealistic.

Interns aren't expressing their own opinion.

All of them.

The one to exempt all frontline healthcare workers earning less than £50k from income tax is a good one. Lifting the threshold to £20k is another. Pure madness.

Can you clarify further by explaining which of their policies are economically ‘delusionary’ ?

While we are all arguing about who is a Tory, I will declare that I prefer governments whose primary goal is to grow the economy to those that only want to redistribute its spoils. That probably makes me a Tory. It does not make me corrupt or stupid.

Stupid is the word I'd reserve for those who think it is possible to put everyone on the same footing. Some people are simply cleverer at life than me, or you. Or more beautiful, better with money, harder working, more energetic, or gifted with a football. Life is not fair or equal. It never will be.

Reform are economically delusionary. Happy to clarify that. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

The first Gulf war started in August 1996 when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. I had a friend who lived there in hiding while it was on, and military friends who did the mine clearance afterwards.

The examples count, someone who thinks inflation is lower under Labour and someone who has a feeling they’re better off. These are the types of people who aren’t on benefits I’d imagine still support Labour. Makes total sense.

You haven’t answered, who is better off?

More toys leaving the pram now?

“Give me one example of someone who’s not a benefit scrounger doing better under Labour”
”here’s two…”
”those don’t count”

Yeh I got you. Not a serious poster. Reform supporter? Figures