To think housing in this country is fundamentally broken?

If funded by the taxpayer yes, and this shouldn’t be seen as remotely controversial.

I don’t think it’s feminism, I think it’s individualism.

The ‘base’ quality of life has massively changed without our wealth changing to accommodate it. In the 50s, having enough food to eat and some kind of roof over your head was seen as adequate in terms of basic rights. Now people expect a house which matches their family size, high quality and abundant food, money for treats and savings, all provided without giving a dime in return as a ‘human right’.

The next government is going to be absolutely brutal and I think people who have enjoyed society provided housing are in for a huge shock.

@CraftyGin The owners wanted to sell as houses, not pubs. Could not get pp to revert to a house. Therefore unable to sell. No doubt local plan is out of date but it’s been an issue around here. They are seen as amenities and they aren’t changing to housing. Many in AONB (as it was) too and green belt so no developer interested. There’s a good case for relaxation of these constraints too.

Is it always a case of the LA dragging its feet. I don't see that around here. It seems to me that most applications are heard sincerely, and if they fit with the Local Plan, they are approved with conditions.

Perhaps potential developers don't see a commercial benefit in converting a village pub?

@taxguru On going issues with closed pubs here! One is a community hub now with a shop and nursery. Two others open 3 days a week. Otherwise they seem to be houses. They don’t get permission for change of use snd are seen as village amenities. Unused and unloved amenities! Both pubs in our village have gone - 30 years ago. We do need planning authorities to get a move on with flexibility. Good flats aren’t slums! Plenty in London are not.

Yes, I know, but my point was that some of the objectors to a change of use in our village closed pub genuinely think that if they wait long enough, another Jeremy will come along and spunk money at it! They're deluded. Just like all the people who object to change of use for closed down retail premises thinking that sooner or later people will want to open up shops again. Bonkers that they can't accept the inevitable and undeniable future of all these run down, semi derelict commercial properties.

I am pleased to hear this. The last time I suggested on another thread that office blocks should be turned into apartments I got accused of wanting to create slums.

@taxguru Clarkson’s pub was formerly a restaurant. It was not closed for years or run down. He just bought it.

IN our village, we've a large pub/restaurant/hotel that's been closed for years and slowly deteriorating. There've been a few planning applications for change of use into flats, a children's home, etc., but the local opposition (inc parish council) is strong so nothing gets passed. Meanwhile it gets more derelict by the year. The locals keep saying it's such a shame it closed etc but it wouldn't have closed if they'd have actually used it. The fact that it closed due to being uneconomically viable and that no one wants to buy it to use as a pub/restaurant for over a decade means it'll never re-open as one, especially now with the increases in business rates, employers nic etc. Locals need to wake up and smell the coffee and stop harking back to how things used to be. One nutter even highlighted Jeremy Clarkson's new pub as justification to leave it empty for the long term whilst waiting for someone similar to come along and do the same (as if!!).

Gosh this is exactly the same as where I am. The council has started to ignore these opposition groups.

Permitted development for offices and shops was strengthened in 2021 but has been slow to produce anything. I was talking about a historic case I knew of to be fair. So yes planning authority had to approve the scheme but it’s assumed it can happen. Many planning authorities drag their feet though. There are also restrictions on size of dwelling and all sorts of arguments ensue about road use and environment. Nothing is a quick fix.

Sounds a good idea. Office space is no longer in high demand, just as retail premises aren't either. Far better to repurpose into something we need rather than allow them to decay and become derelict for years/decades.

I popped down a rabbit hole and looked at the planning permission for this particular development. The original planning permission was granted in 2021 with loads of conditions. It looks like the development is almost ready.

The development was proposed and approved under permitted development which was put into law in 2015.

It only ceased to be used as offices around the time the pandemic, ie it didn't survive the working from home culture.

@CraftyGin In that case, the planning authority has altered its employment zone into a residential zone. It’s possible of course but they are so slow. Many over large high streets could do with a reduction.

Someone with a house that had a shop front had to battle for years for it to be a private house again near us, despite that end of the high street being mixed use. Often Victorian owners just made their home a shop but it’s now set in planning policy with dreadfully slow revision. Fortunately a couple of other shops have more easily reverted to houses but it takes too long. We need a core high street but not extending into mixed sections for dogmatic reasons.

The office block thing makes sense. There is not much demand for office space nowadays.

They are turning empty office blocks into flats around here, as well as building flats on every postage stamp of vacant land.

@taxguruThey can revise the plan! They don’t bother of course. JL wanted to develop stores into housing 18 months ago. Not sure how this is progressing. Stuck in the local authority quagmire probably.

Some councils have a blanket "no" to such applications as their local plan continues to designate such areas for retail and hospitality and they claim they can't allow planning permissions contrary to their local plan. Utter madness when everyone knows that High St retail will never return to how it used to be pre supermarkets and out of town retail parks.

There’s a town near me with an increasing number of empty shop units where the council are proposing to allow blocks of flats instead, but there is constant opposition from locals to every planning application. It’s as if they think they can take the town centre back to the 1970s without actually bothering to shop in it themselves.

I can certainly get on board with this idea.

The 37% of students going to Uni is on par with most other developed economies.

The difference is the type of 'courses but who has been in power for the last 14 years where some degrees have increasingly become worthless.

Yeah apart from other countries in Western Europe have coped perfectly well with housing.
Outside of capital cities (some areas) and tourist hotspots' most of Europe has far cheaper housing than the UK and still has Feminism.

I assume you re a man.

@taxguru Just to correct you: the university sector was expanded by the Conservatives in 1992. This converted polys, colleges of HE and colleges of Education and Colleges of Art into universities. Blair never got 50% of young people going to university - it’s around 37%. However the big expansion in numbers was caused by Cameron lifting the numbers cap at unis in 2013. It’s that decision, not Blair’s urging, that affected housing in university cities. We perhaps need a model where more students stay local for university but we seem wedded to new halls of residence and moving away from home and complaining about the cost.

@Seymour5 It’s not decreasing waiting lists for one person units in Bracknell Forest. Other SE areas would not be much different. London probably worse.

Government info shows that we do indeed have many single people living with their parents. The cost and availability of homes for them is high. In the meantime they contribute to household costs in their parents home. I think many of us did this decades ago too, but not for as long. We had friends with bank of mum and dad coughing up a flat deposit in the 70s. It’s not a new thing but far more common now.

We don't have any incentive to downsize. We have 5 bedrooms now, but would still want three. The price differential is not much, and with stamp duty and other moving costs, it wouldn't be worth it.