To think Jeremy Bamber might be innocent

Well yes of course, and they had to create scenes with actors, but the first opening credit says the main source material is the book by CAL. Not just ‘inspired by’

Ive read three books on the case and watched quite a few podcasts. Of course that didn't mean anything really as there are glaring anomalies in the facts as we have them.

I finally watched the podcast you were discussing at the beginning and wasnt impressed at all. Lots of reaching there.

Carol Ann Lees book is very good. There were times I thought there was a lot of doubt, but it took you through him "shooting rabbits" the night before and leaving the loaded gun sitting out...staging the scene really.

The police officer on site who originally said there was movement in the house, it was for a split second and he now says it could have been light reflection on a window.

The times her flatmates testified to were minutes apart and were still within a half hour and when he said his father phoned him. Its not like now when you hit a button on your mobile. He phoned a large house with apartments to a landline which was on a different floor. It took minutes to get her to answer. Strange when his sister was running amok with a gun. He knew he didnt have to rush as hed done what he intended, IMO.

Carol also goes into detail about how he got there without being seen. How he knew he could hammer a kitchen window to get it to open, meaning he could get away leaving the house locked as if noone had been there.

If the police hadn't fooked up and took the scene immediately as a murder suicide he might have been caught sooner, but carpets were burnt, Sheila was cremated, and Julie kept quiet until he decided to chuck her for another woman.

Colin caffells book is also very good, he believed Jeremy totally at the beginning, but in the few days after and particularly at the funeral things jumped out to him. His book is very poignant as its mostly about Sheila and thd boys and how it played out for him personally, but it certainly brought it home to me that this wasn't just a story on a podcast about the handsome hero in prison for something he hadnt done, but a cold hearted murderer who shot two little boys in the head, one five times, one three times, killed his mother and father brutally, and was happy for his sister to take the blame.

This is the lovely guy so broken hearted that he tried to flog naked pictures of Sheila days after she died

The clean feet might simply be explained by the socks nearby.

I haven't yet read the 17,000 word New Yorker article, have you? But Heidi Blake worked on it for eight months and I'm sure it would have been fact checked thoroughly but maybe she did miss stuff.

it was inspired by that book, but the writers would naturally have looked at other sources.

Well to be fair the 2020 series was based almost entirely on the book written by Carol Ann Lee which is a very detailed and comprehensive summary. It’s not just dramatised from the writer’s room.

I’m watching the channel 4 documentary at the moment and the driving the car slowly and Shelia’s clean feet really stick out for me.
i told DH about the car and his face dropped. The woman from the New Yorker was so desperate for him to be set free, clearly ignoring all these bits of information.

I seem to remember there was thought to be movement in the house while the police and Bamber were outside. I can't remember the details though.

That’s odd that Douglas Dale gave three different versions of the time when Bamber called.

Are people getting their info from the 2020 ITV drama? I haven’t watched that but am aware of a lot of facts from reliable sources.

Yes very good point about how he was not 'racing to the scene'!

It's impossible to shoot yourself twice in the way that the defence suggested - she was tiny too as you say.

And he was driving about ten miles an hour!!

seeing the scene and size of Neville Thera. O way Sheila did it

also shooting herself twice - it’s almost unheard off not least because of the pain and distress of the first shot - she would need to reload too apparently - the way the gun is leaning it’s so staged

Totally agree. If it was in the day and age of mobile phones and he phoned her on the way to the farm, fair enough. But you've just had that call from your Dad (which definitely didn't happen) and then you call the police to meet you there and then you bloody well hightail it over to the farm where you've been told your sister is 'going berserk' with a gun. Of course you do.

My old alarm clock ran ten minutes behind my mum's and the old clocks in my house in the eighties all did😃

Three of them testified that Jeremy rang around that time. Ive no love for Julie but her friends have no reason to lie.

It was STILL an ongoing emergency situation and he'd either phoned or was just about to phone the police. It went on for hours after that before they knew what had happened.

Hardly appropriate for other calls at all.

I think it was just two? As for Julie, she was hardly the most credible of witnesses.

Also, just noticed that one of the flatmates - Douglas Dale - first statement was that the call was at 3.00 but later claimed it was “about 3.30”.

He knew what had gone down so he was dragging his heels

Well according to his own testimonial his sister was running amok with a shotgun, I wouldn't have taken it as a chance to have a chat with my girlfriend

If he’s been told ‘your sister’s gone mad with a gun’ he doesn’t know whether she has killed anyone yet or is going to.

I think I saw part of the first episode but wasn’t that interested. To be honest it’s not a case I’ve ever been interested in, but the TNY podcast caught my imagination. I’ll have a look at the ITV drama too, thanks for the recommendation.

Well the phone woke them up. And like myself when woken up I look at the time. They gave statements to this effect.

So yes the time he phoned is very clear. The only confusing thing was whether it was right before or right after he phoned the police.

But either way it was at exactly when he claimed his father saud his sister was going Loopy with a gun, so in my opinion a huge big fluttering red flag.

Ill agree to disagree with respect, as this case is a strange one for sure.

If Shelia had attacked her dad I’m sure there would have been scratch marks on him if she did have nails.

The NY podcast annoyed me in the end. When she talked to the cousin and asked him about getting DNA on the silencer he clearly was talking about contact DNA and not blood.
The idea that she could have been alive and shot herself whilst the police were outside and didn’t know as it wasn’t ’that loud’.

Im sure they can’t assess the case on how evidence on 2025 standards on evidence gathering, which is what they seem to want to do. Policeman wouldn’t have had training on that stuff. Yes it was a balls up, but if you start applying that how many other murderers would have to be released.

ok thanks ! i have sky crime, I’ve seen the Fred Dineage ‘crimes that shook Britain’ hopefully it’s a different one. Thank you

No problem, the doc is really good and there’s also one on Sky Crime too. Fill your boots.

All of them got the time wrong?

You'd go straight to the farm - there's a rampage going on and you've told the police you will meet them there. You would call your partner later.