To think the problem with wealth inequality is that rich people don't know how rich they are?

I’m not smug. I’m also not greedy.

Noones saying those of us on highly paid, high stress jobs are the enemy, just that those who don't recognize their wealth for what it is are at best a bit embarrassing and at worst painfully deluded

There is a big difference between earned wealth and inherited wealth. Those with inherited wealth are the real rich. Those who have earned their money can see it suddenly dry up and then they are unlikely to still be rich.

This is one of the reasons it was so tone deaf for Kirstie Allsop (inherited wealth) to go after Michael Rosen (earned wealth).

Surely high salaries and high prices are related though. If people earned less then London prices would have to come down because nobody would be able to afford them except for the super rich (who will be there regardless). Pay people more and you are essentially pushing up prices.

Prices largely reflect what the local population can afford to pay

An interesting thought experiment for those interested in talking about wealth rather than incomes.

Would you consider someone with £1,000,000 in the bank as wealthy?

I'm guessing yes...

Would you consider someone living in a council house as wealthy?

I'm guessing no...

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Shelter estimates that in London, the difference between average social rents and private rents is over £1400. This would be higher in zone 1/2 areas - in my area I have seen £2k+ differences.

What is the value of the real annuity you'd have to have in order to generate that difference? Let's say the social housing tenure is 50 years, age 25 to 75. You want a sum in the bank today, which you will slowly draw down on to generate £1400 a month for 50 years. Social tenancies are relatively safe so let's assume a risk-free rate of 1%, although you'll be taxed on it, so let's say it's 0.6%.

The private renter would need to have ~£700k today right now in the bank to get the same "value" as the £1400 rent difference (or ~£1M+ for £2000).

(This is assuming the private renter dies neatly at 75. Add another ~£100k for every extra 10 years she needs to live.)

Do you view, say, someone who sold a business and got a payout of £700k-1M, in the same "bucket" as someone who just got allocated a London social house? Why / why not?

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We are very bad at conflating incomes with wealth, but there are also significant distortions in the market (such as council housing, but similar applies to other benefits, and even arguably "mortgages from 20 years ago" which have value in their protection from market rents) which make it very hard to compare either wealth or incomes "head to head".

Private School.

I am not whinging, my point is there is a reality vs expectation mismatch.

And again for the people at the back
people working high stress job for 130k arent the enemy billionaires are..

They aren't comparable tho, because in 1980s dual income households were very much not the norm, so everything (including houses) was priced to a lower/more easily achieved baseline...

Both working/saving to buy a house in 1980 put them very much in a position of privilege vs both working MW jobs now.
To compare to now you'd have to look more at a couple where 2 people work 3.5 jobs. Could they afford a house doing that? Probably.

Not to deny there are issues with housing and wage growth in the UK, but these historical comparisons/statements of 'they had it easy' often aren't fully grounded.

I earn slightly less than that and she earns around that. Gifted nothing as from deprived backgrounds. I can buy a £300 coat if I really want to, and of course everyone has to check what they spend on food etc. we are a bit blasé with a fair few leisure activities. I'd like to be able to afford a bigger holiday.

It's expectations related. Imagine whinging you can't afford a £300 coat when there are people struggling to buy their kids a pair gloves. It's ridiculous and the reason people think those on higher income are totally out of touch

May be they can’t afford their own children and still pay for the children of people on welfare?

Not as much as people on here seem to want.

Its not that they don't think it's a lot.

Its that people who are told their household income allegedly puts them in the top 2%, fairly reasonably, expect to feel like they are in the top 2%...they reasonably expect to buy what they fancy within reason without worrying....

But they cant...unless they had gifted deposits most live very ordinary lives.. they cant just buy the £300 coat they fancy or throw whatever they want into the basket in waitrose.
they have to double check and budget and shop at aldi and sainsburys and drive some unremarkable but "okay" car.

Like i said people working high stress job for 130k arent the enemy billionaires are...

Fair point 🤣

260k cents is only $2600–so no, not much income.

My in laws are in their 60s
They bought their first house in 1980 ish.

They were both 21 and earning low wages, in jobs which would be the equivalent of minimum wage jobs now. It is a 3 bed semi in a not great area of a northern city. It’s still worth £250,000.

Two people on minimum wage would not be able to buy that same now without significant help.

I'm not a communist, more of a socialist.

I don't, we're not far off that in my household but I bloody know that doesn't make us poor

We run our own business, we are probably what people consider rich. We went on holiday today, a project has gone off the rails so Dh has worked all weekend trying to avoid it impacting on our holiday - events have moved beyond our control - he's worked all day - we're going out for dinner in half an hour and then he will probably work all night - he won't ask the team to do it but that is what he does when I say he "works hard" - he has always worked long hard hours. But you won't hear him moaning about it and you won't hear me either (except tonight, maybe) because where would we get sympathy from? - we know not to complain - we don't complain about taxes either - who would sympathise. I want him to stop working, I want to stop working - we don't need the money - he is worried about the team and them getting good jobs, they are all amazing - they'd get a new job in an instant...but he feels an obligation to them. Sometimes I wish he was more ruthless about this but I love him because he isn't - but the perception is if your successful it's because you've shat on someone else and I'm sure many do, who cares about stereotyping the wealthy, it's hardly picking on the weakest - so we shut up and put up.🤐

Chat GPT reckons the average age at buying of a first time buyer in 1980 was 31 years, and it now risen to 34. I'm not convinced that's really terribly significant TBH, particularly given the much bigger jump in age at having first child.

Communism can never work because of human nature. People act in their own and their families’ self interest. Sure some people might want to work as a neurosurgeon on the same wage as someone stacking shelves but a vanishingly small amount of people - not enough to make a functioning society.

We don't resent them. We find it odd that people consider it 'not a lot'.

Give it a rest.

Why do you resent working people earning £260k? What has it got to do with you?

People who think ¢260k household income isn't a lot even now might be the problem

Who'd have thought?
Lower taxes increase tax revenue by like, erm, attracting business.

I can only think that people would rather continue in their envy politics than actually fixing the problem