AIBU - inheritance sad story

It doesn’t matter that the circumstances have changed, and what his wife may ‘deserve’ is irrelevant. It’s not his house, and he cannot force his daughters to either gift or sell it back to him.

He singed the house over, but circumstances have changed. His wife deserves a legal agreement that she keeps the house during her lifetime. It can then go to the others. But be prepared. People can be ruthless.

It’s not to protect him, he’ll be dead! It’s to make sure all his children benefit

That's what my neighbours discovered when they tried to hand over their home to the two children. They'd have to pay market rent. They backed away

@MorriseysMother you speak about him like he’s a jolly old benevolent chap, not a scummy father who walked out on his wife and 5 kids!
its laughable to bring morals into protecting him!

Gosh there are some delightful people out there, grandad was only trying to leave what he had earned to his children and I I don’t blame him, it’s not illegal. How I see it is that grandad signed the house over to the two eldest children to avoid inheritance tax. Seven years have passed so as long as he has been paying rent no inheritance tax is due. If not then if the value is above the threshold IHT will be due. Legally the two eldest own it and can do what they want with it, if grandad wants it back then CGT will be due even if they give it back, might be cheaper to sell it back to him and pay stamp duty as that is a lower rate than CGT. That way the eldest two get the cash (which morally should be split between all the children) and the new wife gets the house. Or the new wife could be made a life tenant and when she dies the house could be sold and the proceeds split between the children. I think it was done with the best intentions and he didn’t think he would find love again. Definitely get some tax advice!

That’s the law. It demonstrates that you don’t retain a beneficial interest.

It’s a sad tale but it was a bit silly of him to sign it over to them. I can’t imagine any solicitor recommended he do this.

It's entirely possible his new wife has no idea he doesn't own the house they've lived in for the last 25 years and that he's trying to resolve this problem with his two eldest children without her knowledge (leaving her the shock of finding out the truth when he eventually dies).
My dad remarried after my mum died and lived in our family home with his new wife for 25-odd years before dying two years ago. His Will left the house to me and my siblings, but one of them (with my agreement) managed to persuade him, two weeks before his death, to change his Will entirely in favour of his wife. We couldn't have lived with ourselves seeing her with little to nothing after 25 years of marriage.
I guess there are just some selfish, grabby fuckers like OP's mum out there, and then there's the rest of us with integrity and a sense of what's right. Even if OP's mum and her sibling don't think they should sign the house back to OP's grand-dad, the least they could do to give him peace of mind, is to agree to allow his wife to remain in the house for as long as she wants to, or until/if she remarries.

This post nails it.

In what regard would him signing his house over to two of his children be regarded as "deprivation of assets"?
Why would the OPG be involved in a decision he took around 30 years ago when he was presumably of sound mind? (OP's given us no indication he isn't now.)
The current rates of CGT are 18% and 24% (depending on whether the gain is within the basic income tax band or above it). Where do you get 40% from?

I might start by checking the ownership of the house on the Land Registry

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/search-the-register

But true.

If I was your mum, I’d be really pissed off. Her father basically gave her a gift / early inheritance. Then afterwards met a woman, had another kid and just expects her to hand it back over to them? Hell no!

The father and his new partner had TWENTY FIVE YEARS, to sort this out and make alternative arrangements to ensure she had security once he passed, but they did not.

You clearly missed the part in OP's first post where she told us "before he met his wife he put his house in the 2 eldest children’s names (my mum included) his train of thought was if anything happened to him or he got ill etc they’d have that house ...". The house is no longer owned by him - and hasn't been for about 30 years (OP's mum and one of her siblings have owned it all this time).

Yes, exactly this. OP told us "before he met his wife he put his house in the 2 eldest children’s names (my mum included) his train of thought was if anything happened to him or he got ill etc they’d have that house ..." In other words, after he left OP's grand-mother, but before he met his second wife, he transferred ownership of his property to his two eldest children (one of them being OP's mum) to ensure they got it (I presume he didn't think he would remarry and thought they would then have the house free of IHT).
So, all the people posting about his Will are writing nonsense. He no longer owns the house he and his wife live in (his two eldest children do) and it seems that this has been the case for around 30 years.

@whattodo1113 YANBU OP and your mum and her sibling are being greedy and amoral. Your grand-dad's pension will not be enough for his wife. She will be homeless after two years with no means of saving up a deposit to buy a home of her own in that time and reduced to renting a home until she dies. With only a small income and ever-increasing rents in the UK she will live out her days in poverty. Presumably she isn't that young herself? If she's also somewhat elderly, why can't your mum and her sibling allow her, after your grand-dad's death, to remain in the property until she dies and then sell it? To do anything else would be devoid of any care or compassion in the extreme and one could only hope that no other family members would ever treat your mum or her sibling this way. They need to take a long, hard look at themselves and find their sense of decency.

Can you clarify - has grandad signed the deeds to the house over to the eldest daughter's? And they won't sign it back?
Absolute dreadful behaviour tbh, I'm not surprised everyone is upset.

That only applies to things you actually own. You can't will someone else's house.

Yes this. I'm no legal expert but as far as I am aware if he is of sound mind the oldest children (or any of his children) don't get a say and if he draws up a will or has no will it will go to his next of kin which is his living wife. They can contest it but I don't think they would get very far as his wife is legally both spouse and next of kin.

Get a solicitors advice .. so sad and sorry your feeling this,way with your grandad x

@whattodo1113

Good question...

Is there something your parent knows that you don't?

Crunch the numbers a bit.

OP says her grandad is 86. Kids from his first family are in their 60s, and as there's 4 of them the oldest is likely mid to late 60s. Then he had his younger daughter in his late 50s, making her 27ish now. Female biology being what it is, DW likely to have been no older than early 40s when she had DC5. That would make her late 60s tops now.

She could be much younger too, but that would make it even more likely she outlives the owners and even less reasonable to expect to live there forever.

The only advice I can give is get grandad to see a solicitor, take any paperwork with him regarding the house, go with him so you know exactly what they say so he doesn't get confused. I can't sign my house over to my family without paying capital gains, but as I say, solicitor is best, can also tell him if his wife and child can be forced out after 2 years. Don't leave things to chance get it sorted for him.

You’re powerless to do anything other than support your Grandad. You’ve shown tremendous strength of character even trying to broach the situation. Disgraceful they won’t allow him to live his last stage of life with peace of mind. They could sign it back. Give Wife life tenancy and split 6 ways. Greed is a horrible thing and their reasons are spurious. Keep supporting your Grandad as sounds like you’re the only one with his best interests at heart.