AIBU - inheritance sad story

I totally agree. They have had all this time and did nothing. How lovely for them to be living for free all those years in house they didn’t own. Most people would find it hard to have sympathy for them now panicking over money when they have all those years to plan.

The only thing I will say though is that maybe the children were not young when he left, maybe they were older teens or twenties. He might have left a bad marriage and signed the house over to the eldest two (who were over 21) after a divorce, so that they could look after the younger ones college fees etc or give them a down payment on a house if he died. It also might have been 10 or 15 years between the divorce and meeting his second wife. We can’t really accuse him of abandoning a young family as we don’t know any of that information.

The original families mother might have remarried a very wealthy man. We just don’t know.

All we know is that it’s a mess and it’s better to deal with things than ignore them.

Also did the two siblings pay anything when the house was transferred? As most solicitors would have advised a payment rather than an out and out gift of the home he lived it.

Because even more so then your granddad really would be barking up the wrong tree more than he is already.

I've come across a similar situation recently (not with a gift of the house, but a man with two families, and the children of the first marriage using the opportunity of their father's impending death to seek recompense for the hurt he inflicted on them when he left 30 years ago).
It's ugly. I don't condone the attitude of the older daughter, but it's a direct result of the parent's selfish actions and a stark reminder of the damage that divorce causes to children. We like to tell ourselves that children are resilient, and that time heals, but the reality is that a divorce can cause lifelong wounds for the children.

Not an accountant but this sounds like a nightmare. He should have paid CGT when he put in the names of his children (if due) and if they were to give to him now then they will have to pay CGT. So basically the only winners would be HMRC and possibly solicitors! I would leave well alone. He made a decision he regrets haven't we all!

Oh god what a situation. So many parts to this. Honestly, if it’s the case that he left his first wife and kids with nothing and they struggled then good luck to your mam and other sibling. The house is legally theirs, he’s asking them to give them their house.
If he was always an amazing involved father, then I’d feel differently.

Yeah. Where does that say he abandoned them and never saw them?

Of course the child who lives with their parents gets more time with them than a child of divorced parents.

There is no suggestion that the GF abandoned anyone.

Did he abandon her? Where does OP say that please?

You can’t just decide to sign a house back over - your mother and her sibling legally own it and have for over 25 years

What is the value of the house? And the value of the pension in comparison?

Shes obviously a lot younger than him if he had a child in his late 50s….. she’s benefited from not having to pay rent / mortgage etc and he has benefited ultimately from care fees etc

The second wife might outlive OP's mother and siblings as she's probably younger than some of them. Why should they give her lifelong tenancy? They might never see any of the money on a house that two of them have owned for years.

Having been probably badly affected by his leaving them when they were young, they've now to sacrifice to benefit his second family?

Why only leave it to two of the five original siblings I wonder? The three left out are surely at the mercy of your mother handing over any share when its sold.

I think he should have been paying proper market rent and your mother should have been doing all the things a landlord is obliged to do, gas and electric safety certificates, energy performance certificates amongst others. Otherwise as PP above have said, its not really been gifted and IHT gains will apply, probably CGT too, when its sold.

from the OP

he split up with my grandma when the children were young.

there argument is he left when they were kids and this new child got more of him than they did growing up.

OP, you don’t know the damage he caused and also the implications of giving it back. He made his bed years ago. Now those choices are catching up with him.

Another non-empath!
How can this OP not want to think of how her own Mother felt as a child, when her ‘father’ abandoned her?

In an ideal world they would let his (eventual) widow live in the property until such a time as she dies or remarries (similar to a life tenant arrangement). Then sell and divide the proceeds between all of the children (half sibling included). However I imagine some or all will want to cash in their chips sooner, so will have no compunction about evicting her from her home.

He was extremely misguided to transfer the house to two of his children in the first place, absolutely nothing to prevent them selling and keeping the proceeds for themselves - which gives them the financial upper hand over their younger siblings.

I agree it’s not very fair on his wife and youngest daughter, but as the property won’t form part of his estate I don’t think they have any legal remedy.

Agree

It's nothing to do with ypu.

You don't understand the complex emotions involved.

I would leave it to your mum and butt out.

This is complicated and you need a solicitor to advise.
Morally, I think I'm with the two recipients - the two eldest children. He signed the house over to them around 25 years ago. That's a very long time for them to get used to the idea that it's their property. I can see why they wouldn't want to reverse the decision now. (Although I'm baffled as to why he excluded the other three children.)
It does sound as though his original intent was to avoid care home fees and it's backfired spectacularly.
It's sad the children don't see much of him but there are often reasons for this so I wouldn't be too quick to judge.

There is absolutely no suggestion in OPs post that the GF abandoned the family. A divorce is not an abandonment.

This is just speculation and entirely unhelpful to the OP.

Detail is everything though.

I'm pretty sure if you asked the different parties involved to post on here you would get very different viewpoints of the situation.

And that is always the problem, having to make judgements in the face of (very) incomplete facts.

It's too late, it has been gifted. It wasn't his home anymore the day he signed over the deeds. There is nothing he can do, it literally didnt beling to him for years. Bit unfair to want it to go to his youngest daughter instead of sharing ownership bewteen all his children. I can understand why they're reluctant, if they give it back there will be tax implications and they'll get nothing! Seems unfair theyll have to pay taxes on something that will be no longer theirs! Perhaps ask if they would be willing to allow his wife to live there after his death? That is essentially what your grandfather is worried about.

But that’s the point- it was the transfer of the property that was the stupid thing to do, not the retirement or lack of buying an alternative property.

He made an error in judgement by gifting the house (presumably to avoid tax?) But he did that 25 YEARS AGO.

He he can't gift what hasn't been his for 25 years.

Of course “so you 5 kids that your father abandoned….”

I'm not a legal expert. I suggest speaking to a solicitor. I don't know about rent as I've owned my own home since the age of 18. All I know is my husband had to sign something to state he has no rights to my property, something to do with the mortgage so it was a suggestion to see if there is anything similar.

If he was very impoverished, it makes no sense whatsoever to transfer ownership of his home to others. Also, the second wife was younger and presumably worked some of the 25 years, so between them they had at least some earning potential to at least somehow save more money than nothing? I mean I don't work part-time and I'm a single parent, but that's how it is if I want to support my children in the future, that's one of the reasons I work f/t!

He had six kids, that's a lot of children and two wives and if you are going to do that, you need to have a bit more foresight and perhaps work longer and harder than others, not retire at 55 and have another entire family.

Defend him? Where did I do that?

I’m questioning the morality of leaving the wife homeless….