AIBU - inheritance sad story

The house might have risen in value by 600% since 1998.

If it was worth £100k then and it’s worth £600k now and the sons are higher rate tax payers there will be a 28% CGT cost when if it gets transferred back to GF.

That’s a CGT bill of £140k - is GF going to pay this? I assume not. Remember CGT has to be paid within 60 days of the gain being realised (date of transfer/sale).

If it does get transferred back to GF his spouse will inherit it without IHT and later on leave it to her daughter.

GF is way out of line, you don’t get to ask for gifts back. He made his choice and now it sounds like someone has suddenly realised they are going to be homeless and not inherit when he dies.

But an element of truth.

He is the one who has made the mess.

And that sounds like the situation if as it seems, GF gave away the house and continued to live there rent free.
It sounds a right mess and as if he was not well advised all those years ago. People talk about putting the house in their name' as though it was a technicality but it isn't.

@whattodo1113 - you should have posted in LEGAL MATTERS rather than AIBU. Most of the ‘advice’ here is misleading or downright wrong.

Your grandfather has messed up in a big way, and I doubt that there is an easy way of fixing it. It definitely wouldn’t be as easy as your mum and the co-owning sibling signing the house back to their father.

The grandfather and the current owners of the house need qualified legal advice, preferably together. However, if they are reluctant to do so, you should urge your mother to consult with a solicitor on her own.

Burying her head in the sand would be very risky. As has been pointed out, as things stand, there will be CGT and IHT to pay when the house is eventually sold. Given it has been 25 years, the increase in value could be huge.

Why? He abandoned her mother and five kids.

Hi @Praying4Peace I would like a better understanding of why you think that. As I said upthread, the grandfather decided to make the gift of his house 25 years ago, and OPs mother may well have structured her retirement around this asset? And potentially take on a significant CGT liability?

Not always
My Mums partner has the right to stay in her house for life if he chooses and now she has gone it has put all of us (him included) in a difficult situation
The House is not suitable for his needs but he won't move elsewhere that would be and if there had been a timescale in my Mums Will we could have gradually transitioned him somewhere better. As thing stand he will either die there lonely or end up in crisis and be put somewhere in a hurry.

Because he doesn't own the house any more and so can't leave it to anyone in his will.

OP says he’s tried to get it back, so presumably he’s been told by a solicitor that he doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

The moral arguments about what your mother and her sibling should or shouldn’t do are irrelevant. Their, of free and healthy mind, made a choice he now regrets. As upset about it as he may now be, that’s on him.

Personally OP, I wouldn’t get involved.

Exactly. All the children are all now adults. They should all have been treated equally but he messed up and never fixed it.

Why should his original children give back a gift because he has a new child: I definitely think the child from the second marriage has written this post.

Unfair and harsh

I hear where you are coming from OP.
Very difficult situation and it seems harsh that his wife will only be able to stay in her home for 2 years after gd passes.
Ultimately, this is a moral situation and I believe your gd's wishes should be respected.

Your grandfather is awful. Leaving 5 children, ineptly arranging his home ownership in a bid to avoid IHT, and now to attempt to claw back something he'd given away over 25 years ago. What a mess he's created.

Your mum and uncle cannot give it back. It would land them with a hefty CGT bill. Imagine being so selfish that not only do you want to disinherit your older children, you expect them to pay for that privilege themselves.

The house was gifted to avoid paying tax on it. 25 years or so ago loads of people did it, my parents included. we told them not to because it was trying to evade tax and they didnt listen. they are both still alive. when they go I anticipate the shit is really going to hit the fan because only half of their children are on the deeds and the other half arent plus some of the children still think this is legal and dont understand all the taxes that are going to be payable. Its a shit show and its the reason why NO ONE should do anything with their estate or their possessions without taking legal, independent advice. My parents read half a story in a magazine and just went and did it. No legal training nothing. I suspect the OPs dad did the same. he wanted something to pass on not to have it sold to pay for care costs in the future and its come back now to bite him on the bum. How many other people on this thread have parents that have done similar shenanigans I wonder and they wont know about it until their parents die?

I suspect (but CBA doing the maths) that some of them were under 18 when the transfer happened.

If the house was in lieu of maintenance then so be it.

Presumably the youngest daughter will inherit from her mother, who will also inherit her husband’s assets, so that would seem to square things up for her?

She’s a young adult still living at home but should be well set-up to move out and live independently (taking care of her mother if needed/desirable)

You need to remember that Grandchildren often see their Grandparents very differently to how their children see them. Often they are abusive and neglectful with their children and then go on to become wonderful grandparents.

Personally, I wouldn't be giving back the house because apart from anything else, I'd feel as if I was taking money from my own children who would inherit from me. I do think it would be morally wrong for his daughter not to have a share so I'd have to have a good think about how I'd manage that.

I don’t think this is a sad story at all. I think DM & sibling are very reasonable and they only need to share proceeds of the sale with the youngest sibling.

I would not be guilted by any of it frankly. trying to disinherit 5 of your kids and passing it off as a sob story. Pull the other one.

What advice? All of this has absolutely NOTHING to do with OP, it is between her grandfather and her mother (and 1 other sibling).

Getting legal advice and interfering in a situation she knows absolutely nothing about is just odd.

'abandoned' is a synonym for 'left'.. I don't think anyone is saying he never saw them again, but there is obviously some bad feeling from his children about the circumstances of their upbringing, which OP would have no first hand experience of, so it seems to fit that she is the only one that is siding with her grandfather on this situation.. she is only really looking at it from his point of view and that shows in her OP.

I wouldn't use the term 'abandoned' myself, based on OPs posts, but it's right there in her post that he 'left' them, make of that what you will I suppose.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested to hear why you think the recipient of a gift made a quarter of a century ago, should return said gift, reducing her wealth in retirement and potentially expose herself to ruinous taxation due to the a change in the givers wishes, again, a quarter of a century down the line?

I second the advice from a professional on page 1, get off Mumsnet and seek professional advice from a solicitor.

What for? For taking some security after becoming a single mother to five children in the 1960s? For prioritising herself and her family over her ex's wife and his child? For thinking their security is his and her responsibility, they've had over 20 years to sort it while living rent free and it's not on her to make sacrifices for these people?

But has this been done legally? I don't know.

I bet the new wife didn't know he didn't own the house. If everything apart from the legal title stayed the same, why would she know.