'In the trenches'

It didn’t mean sheer terror constantly. It was also boring and lonely and a daily grind doing something hard where you could lose all sense of yourself. You don’t get to define it as solely meaning sheer terror based on what - never having been there. If that’s what it is to you, fine, but it’s looking for offence to wilfully misunderstand the parallels and the way language is used to express our experiences. Pick another hill to die on, as they say.

Yanbu. It makes me cringe. We’ve become soft soft and whingy

Have you been in the military and what war(s) did you fight in?

Literally how do you put your shoes on the right feet in the morning?

I mean, some women literally do die as a result of post partum psychosis, post partum depression and labour related ptsd... the early stages of parenthood can also lead to the 'death' of a marriage. I think in some cases it's quite applicable. It can be extremely tough, physically and psychologically.

I don't think that's to minimise the horrors of what soldiers went through in the actual trenches, but just to recognise that that is a very tough, demanding and in some cases dangerous period of parenthood and it needs to be given more attention.

What is wrong with you?

It’s just a turn of phrase

Its quite common for phrases origionating in warfare to be used to describe something else. "On the front line", "Hold the line", "bite the bullet", "caught some flak". They've passed into common usage and are not considered offensive. I don't see a reason in the trenches is any worse.

Because the first four years of motherhood are described as "being in the trenches" on MN and the response to me calling this dramatic and mother hood being not being something I am merely surviving was to list a load of post partum health conditions. Motherhood is more than postpartum and child birth, they are actually vanishingly small parts of being a mother.

Obviously post partum health problems are actual health problems. Thats not what people are referring to when they talk about "the trenches", they are talking about is having young children being shit. Once you have survived child birth and made it past the initial post partum period you're not going to die from being a mother, which is what that poster is trying to make out to be the case. To list a bunch of ways child birth can kill women including PND as a response to a statement about mothering young children not being a shit thing you have to merely survive is silly. No one would see a woman with child birth injury or PND complaining about being ill and reply "you're in the trenches!" They would reply "you're ill, go see a doctor, hope you get better soon." She's conflated two separe things and it's silly. That's why I'm rolling my eyes.

Just a figure of speech. I might say I'm Hank Marvin when I'm particularly hungry, but I'm not actually Hank 😃🎸

Why are you eyerolling a poster who is describing PND?

I think someone needs to look up ‘figurative language’.

And if we’re actually thinking about trench warfare, you may be interested to know that one influential theory for the reasons for ‘shellshock’ (what we would now call PSTD) being so prevalent in WW1 is because men primed for war as the ultimate masculine activity, in fact found themselves in situations which had largely been women’s experience — confined, immobile, waiting, unable to act.

Don’t be silly.

🙄

But people use exaggerated language all the time.

”I’m starving!”
“If my husband doesn’t stop snoring, I’ll kill him!”
”I could murder a cup of coffee”

Life with a young baby/child is difficult. Suicide is the leading cause of death in women with a baby aged 6 weeks - 12 months. If we’re going down the road of picking apart people’s words, you calling early motherhood just “wrangling toddlers” could be seen a crass tbh.

Nobody who matters can possibly be offended by “trenches.”

There are no living veterans of the front line in the Great War.

Well when DC was very little and I was feeling run ragged, teary, relationship strained with DH I came on here looking for support and one poster said basically "don't worry kid, everything you've described is completely normal, gave example of their DC going through similar you're in the trenches now but in a couple of years you'll be out the other end"

I took comfort in that, like it was a shared experience, and I felt normal instead of like I was about to crack from failure to keep my shit together. Obvs I know its not literally being in a war trench or bringing my child up in a bombed out tent city, so please don't look for offence where none is intended. Its just a turn of phrase like, starving, or freezing or feeling like death warmed up. Its not a literal comparison.

the only one who sees a confusion is the OP and people who are offended let's be honest

I’m really offended by your phrasing ‘ against the tide’ OP. My brother got swept out to sea when we were kids. He actually was trying to swim against the tide and nearly drowned. I don’t appreciate you making glib comparisons with this genuinely traumatic event.

I thought parenting a baby/toddler was being "at the coalface"?

No offence intended to anyone at an actual coalface.

Yabu

it is the trenches

Oh bore off!!!

I voted Not because my grandad got the military cross for fighting all the way through the battle of the Somme . The things he saw gave him nightmares for the rest of his days . So in my opinion YANBU.

Oh yeah, that's very common too! 😆 WTF does it even mean 'lurgy?'

😆 'Getting on my tits' is a weird phrase though really isn't it?! I say this too.

I also love to say the much hated on Mumsnet phrase 'it boils my piss!' 😆