To think the UK unfairly taxes families?

Talk about missing the entire point of the thread!

Why do you think CSA payments should be taxed twice though? That seems unfair.

Most money is taxed several times, why should child support be any different? It certainly shouldn’t be ignored for benefits purposes as it currently is.

I'm certainly with you on the fairness principle and pleased to see that you agree that there should be no special, lower rate for pensioners.
Why do you think CSA payments should be taxed twice though? That seems unfair. When you say dividends, are you also including the sale of shares, property and other investments? I do agree that CGT is too low compared to income tax but the counter argument is always that it would deter investment which is needed and that it would only be fair if adjusted for inflation. I wonder if a graded CGT could be invented, accounting for inflation with lower rates for those who invest for, say 2 years+ and higher rates for those who place multiple trades. That would encourage the longer term investors. Just initial thoughts from someone who is far from being a tax expert!

My point was that today's pensioners have paid way less tax over their lifetime than young workers will today

Have they? Student loans don’t count because it’s repayment of debt, not tax. They don’t start work until they’re 21/22, their grandparents started work at 16. The basic rate of income tax was 33% with 9% NI when they started work - the equivalent of higher rate tax. And the repayment of WW2 debt didn’t finish until 2006. Today’s pensioners with occupational pensions will have racked up the best part of 70 years of paying tax if they achieve average life expectancy.

Wasn't that the poll tax which was so unpopular?

The home ownership obsession has to stop. It is only a very brief post-war blip in the history of humankind. And comfortable, spacious, well-appointed suburban homes are an even briefer blip.

People are going to have to find some other measure of "success" and "security" than property ownership, on a planet teeming with 8+ billion people and ever-dwindling resources. It's just not sustainable. Especially the everyone-must-have-their-own-bedroom-with-ensuite mentality.

We trekked to Bristol recently to see where my grandfather, born 1902, lived (we never knew him except vague memories as small kids.)

The house where he was born was two rooms off some sort of mews or alley; most people today wouldn't kennel their dog there. It's basically a storage shack now.

The next one, where they lived from 1905 to about 1915, is per Righmove 712 square feet. At the time gramp was a toddler it was a two-bedroom with a lounge and a kitchen, and an outhouse out back. Part of a 10-house terrace. They had SEVEN children and two parents in that house.

At some point they upgraded to a nearby three bedroom, which housed the nine children and two parents. Gramp served in WWI from age 14, then worked as a steward on a merchant ship; the lovely people at the Bristol Archives helped us find all of this info and more.

His family all worked from a very young age; per the census records his sister was a "tin foiler" age 15 at the Fry's chocolate factory. Others had jobs on the docks, as "carters"or whatnot, or bricklaying like their dad. As teens. His mother died in childbirth age 40 with the 10th kid. We tried to find her grave at Avonview Cemetery but they had been too poor to afford a marker.

Oh and all of the above dwellings were rented. "Young families" back then couldn't afford to buy, either.

The halcyon days everyone harks back to "when you could support a family and buy a home on one income" were an anomaly, and I daresay most of the complainers would NOT want to live the frugal lifestyle that even comfortable people did in the 50s-80s.

You know you are ridiculous right? You also had free education, and health care. You can't say that paying for someone's kids to go to school is a benefit to the parent! Its a benefit to the child. That you also had. So just the same as you. And OK you didn't take free childcare (neither did I btw) but those kids that the childcare is paying for will grow up to be adults who pay tax to cover your pension! You're not special!

Oh right ok. So we might as well just let the kids starve then right? FFS

People with children are nett takers from the UK system. People without children are nett contributors. I have contributed more over my working life than most current children are ever likely to.

And for that, I have to put up with your entitled whining - you get free childcare, free health, free education for your DC. 1 in 5 of today's young people claim some sort of mental health/disability which stops them from working. That's 20% taking themselves out of the workforce. SO don't give me the guff about older people being selfish.

And then you resent those who have worked to support you??? YABU.

It doesn’t really matter tbh - the tax burden needs to increase - someone has to pay - sorting out the unfairness in the system is a good place to start - but it’s coming to us all. Making everyone pay income tax will not be enough - if more people can’t work because the birth rate is too low and we’ve shut the door to immigrants, we need to spread out the burden everyone will have to pay or take a cut on benefits. But things cannot continue as they are.

Yep. Perfect example of a selfish 'I've paid my way' comment.

Well.i don't see how. If only 5% of people went to university does that mean 95% of people used to do menial jobs? I dont think so. So they obviously didn't need the degrees

Becoming a parent is indeed a lifestyle choice. We aren't animals, we control our fertility.

And no, there is no shortage of human beings on the planet. If ignorant voters reject immigration, let them fester in their beds unattended. We are killing this planet and myriad other worthy species with overpopulation. Subsidizing the production of more mediocre human beings is wrong.

And take a good hard look around at the average human, whose existence is responsible for the decline of the environment. Half of them will never be productive citizens, some percentage will scrape along as unremarkable consumers and labourers, and only a very few will make any net positive contribution to society. Bilking those of us who are net contributors to perpetuate that pointless cycle is wrong.

That’s a very ill-informed comment.

Because they didn't need to to get a good job!

100% agree. So sick of all the selfish 'I paid my way, what about me' chat. I have 20 years of work left. Never had free childcare. Will have worked for 51 years by the time I retire (if indeed I ever get the chance to!) But yes its gen z and gen alpha and those that come afterwards that I'm worried about. Their future is looking bleak.

A working person earning 25k

I'm working past pension age, so pay no NI, but you know what?

I pay almost £30,000 in tax eery year. So fuck off with your whining.

I'm paying for your DC to be born, to go to school, and for their healthcare.

Aren’t tax rates lower now than they’ve ever been? With an higher qualifying rate?

You know children are actually human beings right? Not lifestyle choices? They made no more choice to be born than a pensioner did to grow old. And yes we DO need kids. Otherwise there will be nobody to.support all the elderly (since they're the only ones you are concerned with) immigration isn't the answer (at least not according to the voters) Otherwise there wouldn't be so.much support for Reform

My point was that today's pensioners have paid way less tax over their lifetime than young workers will today. It's not a criticism, when they were working they were supporting fewer pensioners than workers today have to support. It's an ageing population issue, which is why taxes have to go up. But as the original poster suggested, so far this hasn't really been done equitably.

@OwnGravityField. I had to pay childcare with no help! My dh is retired. A family on £25k will be getting extra help too

Did you bother reading the post I was responding to? There’s a good 20 years before the first people who incurred student loans start retiring - and they were bugger all. It’s those who are took out loans after 2012 who are up to their ears in debt and they have Cameron’s government to thank for that.

As a pensioner, getting less than 25k, but unable to claim benefits, I’m paying taxes, as I have since I was 16.

Younger people didn’t invent paying tax etc. 🙄

Yes but that won’t be the case in 10 years - this pension problem just keeps on snowballing - it will not go away - the % of working adults is diminishing we need to tackle the situation now - of face getting into unmanageable amounts of debt.

I agree housing is in a ridiculous state and it's probably the main driving factor in poverty.
I've spent most of my life cold, in second hand clothing and eating one meal a day.
We got £20 child benefit for 2 kids that's it.
When my husband was made redundant after rent we had £60 a week for everything else and that includes the £20 child benefit. Not even entitled to school dinners for the kids.
I have little sympathy for people getting there tax credits and UC top ups who want to take a 3rd rather than a 5th of the income of a pensioner who's annual income is just over £12570