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Surely I’m not expected legally to have this tenant in my property forevermore??

330 replies

Saywhetw · 06/11/2025 17:54

Tenant been in property since 2017. I need to sell. Solicitor telling me we can’t used section 21 as I didn’t provide the right information at the time of the tenancy and also didn’t carry out electrical report or gas safety checks. This was oversight on our part. We can’t seem to use section 8 as tenant paid rent and isn’t a nuisance or anything but she literally won’t move even though we’ve asked repeatedly she just says she hadn’t got anywhere to go. It doesn’t seem right there’s no way out of this?? Solicitor said best they can do is write a letter asking her to vacate. I will get a second opinion tomorrow but really panicking now

OP posts:
Invinoveritaz · 07/11/2025 11:37

How did you get rental insurance without the proper gas and electric certificates? It's people like you who give private landlords a bad name.
If you can afford it, offer her £5k to go and make sure you involve a solicitor and get a contract.

Lefthandedkitty · 07/11/2025 11:36

Why would you consider not doing gas and electric checks could KILL her tenants? I have never done any such tests on my own house, and would never have thought of doing them if I'd had a house to let out.

Switcher · 07/11/2025 11:23

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 06:55

Yes, absolutely nothing to do with supply and demand. 🙄🙄🙄

Futile arguing about how prices work...as soon as it's an emotive topic it's all just "greed". And yet if most people are asked what would happen to, say, apple prices in a really strong harvest year, they'd correctly say that apple prices would drop. Supply won't be increased (and therefore prices fall) by changing who owns the houses, it will change if we either build more houses or have fewer people overall and/or fewer single person households.

outdooryone · 07/11/2025 10:54

Another ex-landlord here with no sympathy OP. You took on a profit making endeavour and did not dispense your basic responsibilities in ensuring the property was safe or that a proper tenancy agreement was in place. This is why proper landlord registration, tenancy deposit schemes, safety checks and more is a Good Thing. In Scotland, missing these things can land you with really significant fines as well.

I am assuming now that all your safety is up to scratch, the house meets appropriate standards throughout, and that your full paperwork is in order to evidence that? If not, that has to be step 1 before you worry about anything else.

Secondly, you will have to speak to the tenant and seek them moving out on good terms.

The tenant will often get good advice from many housing charities to use the full extent of their rights under the law. And in my experience, councils or charities are not averse to advising people how long they can stay even when the procedure and paperwork is followed (months, until court issues eviction) this is because we are in a housing crises - both a shortage of property and an issue with too many dodgy landlords and overcharging.

The tenant really does have you over a barrel, and indeed if the precedent in law above is correct, you may now have a sitting tenant.

Is your solicitor an expert in tenancy law and practice? I would make sure they are and ask questions such as:

  • can you force a new, up to date contract with all the appropriate clauses in, with the existing tenant?
  • Would selling the house enable a new landlord to do the same?
  • What other leverage is there with the tenant? There can be some sh*tty routes here like putting up rent to uncomfortable levels.
  • What creative options are there - including offering to pay the tenant to leave?

I will say it again - basic things like a legal tenancy and doing safety checks is not an oversight, it is unsafe and unsound and places you in the 'dodgy landlord' category firmly. So no sympathy, but I would also understand there are practical steps you can take to explore.

Mysticmaud · 07/11/2025 10:51

Just as an add we reported our abusive landlord for not doing a gas safety check. Local authority I think
He was a solicitor too!

Consider offering the lady six months rent to leave without prejudice. This is hard to save when you're renting.
I can't see this ending well. You've had a number of solicitors kindly advise you on this thread.

My pp re returning all her rent you will have to look up as that was my solicitors information at the time. We only didn't pursue it because we were threatened and it became a police matter.

AlltheHedgehogsontheWall · 07/11/2025 10:49

The previous owner of our home had this problem. It delayed the house purchase by several months. In the end he had to give the tenants a 6 month deposit (their credit rating was awful) and find a suitable tenancy on their behalf in order to persuade them to leave.

His MIL recently moved in next door to us. She told us how sad it was for him that he'd been taken advantage of and how shocked he had been to find, on their departure, that instead of the single woman he had let to there was a family with 5 kids and several pets who had caused significant damage to the property and stolen fixtures and fittings.

Of course, no sympathy was expressed for the people who had to fix the damage and replace the fixtures and fittings, tear up all the carpets due to being ruined by pet waste, deal with the bailiffs for the previous tenants due to the unpaid debts (he clearly hadn't bothered to run credit checks before letting) and undo the bizarre "decorating" and dodgy that had been done. AKA us.

What fixtures and fittings actually were left in place were of such poor quality that they had to be removed anyway, or have since broken. We are trying to get round to replacing the door handles as nearly all of them have either broken or fallen off. The boiler was so old that they had stopped making the model before the turn of the century.

Break out the tiny violins for the man who did as little as possible, failed to fulfil his legal obligations, never once inspected his own property in all the years they were moving in children, dogs, cats and ferrets, spent the bare minimum required to make the house habitable, and promptly abandoned the whole situation when he realised the house he had sold to us was not the house listed in the deeds or the one we'd been shown around.

The gas certificate was just one example of his incompetence and laziness.

IsItSnowing · 07/11/2025 10:45

You've made a massive mistake unfortunately and it is going to cost you money.
You can't ever issue a s21 as you didn't issue the gas certificate.

It doesn't mean the tenant can stay forever though - you can get a possession order by going to court on the basis you want to sell. It may actually be possibe to do this via a s8 as wanting to sell is considered a valid reason even if the tenant hasn't breached the tenancy conditions.

I would speak to a specialist solicitor.

Be prepared though. By not fulfilling your legal requirements the tenant can claim quite a lot of money from you in compensation. And when you take them to court for possession they'll need legal advice so it's unlikely they'll not know this by then. And anyway, the court can rule on the compensation as part of the repossession - it can be several times the monthly rent so can really add up.

Plus obviously court and solicitor fees and potentially bailiff fees if the tenant doesn't go quietly. Not to mention the risk of damage.

You could talk to the tenant and see if they are open to moving out. Explain you need to sell due to financial difficulties. Maybe imply that the house might be repossessed as you can't afford it.

Be as proactive as possible. Offer to help her find somewhere suitable - something nicer would probably help. Show her some potential places.

Offer to pay their deposit on a new place to help them out. Even offer to help them move. Be very apologetic and look as helpful and sympathetic as possible. They may see that as a good option rather than risk losing out in a reposession situation. That will undoubtely be a lot cheaper than any other option.

Kbroughton · 07/11/2025 10:40

Oh come on! I was a landlord years ago because i had to (couldn't sell house and had to move for work) and even i checked out properly what was expected. You know full well you need to provide gas and electricity checks etc. I bet you didnt deposit protect either. Have you declared this on an income tax return as well? I am sorry you are struggling, but the woe is me is a bit rich. You have deliberately not followed relevant legislation and this is what happens. Agree with PPs that you will have to everything that you are meant to do (and the new renters bill is coming in!) and then issue section 21, but there may be more hoops you have to follow. i dont think there is an easy way out of this. Certainly not a quick one.

KTheGrey · 07/11/2025 10:39

ToKittyornottoKitty · 06/11/2025 18:06

Tenant can take action against the landlord for acting illegally and end up costing the OP more money so upping the rent would be daft.

Surely rent hikes are legal, or how come they’re going through the roof?

Mysticmaud · 07/11/2025 10:36

ToKittyornottoKitty · 06/11/2025 18:06

Tenant can take action against the landlord for acting illegally and end up costing the OP more money so upping the rent would be daft.

I think if the tenant was taken to court your breach of the law on gas and electricity means they get all their rent back! You are in serious trouble on this one. Depending on the area I'd offer a cash to vacate deal so she has a deposit for new rental.

C8H10N4O2 · 07/11/2025 10:32

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 10:08

Sure, but all these things make life harder for good landlords who abide by all the rules, while bad landlords don't give a shit and are mostly non-compliant.

At a time when governments have abandoned their housing responsibilities and provided no social housing for years, good landlords are not the enemy. I think people forget this.

Perhaps if the landlord lobby groups didn’t vigorously oppose every small improvement in tenant’s rights and every responsibility for landlords then landlords in general might have a better reputation.

I agree that successive governments have left the rental market too much to “market forces”. Across Europe most countries have rental models for long term, short term and mid term, much more stable rental markets and far less of the bad reputation assigned to smaller letting businesses. Attempts to introduce such models have generally been opposed by landlord groups and lobby groups representing landlords and of course - the landlords sitting in the house.

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 10:26

PumpkinTwistyWindToots · 07/11/2025 10:17

Good landlords are collateral damage but what's the alternative? The renter reforms are part of a number of approaches to tackle the housing crisis. Property conglomerates are more likely to adhere to regulations than individual landlords so it doesn't bother me that non professionals will be forced out of the market. As long as local authorities continue to build and invest in new housing alongside making it harder to evict private tenants the direction is the right one.

Good landlords have been 'collateral damage' for over a decade now. And here with are with a housing crisis which is worse for tenants than it's ever been. What an own goal.

VickyEadieofThigh · 07/11/2025 10:20

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 07/11/2025 10:10

Get your electric and gas safety checks done now! This is a legal requirement.

AND has been for many years! We rented out our house while we went abroad for 4 years and we've been back (and sold that house) for almost 20 years.

Mind, we used a reputable, local letting agency and paying them to do things properly for us was well worth it. The tenants left the house in fantastic condition, too.

PumpkinTwistyWindToots · 07/11/2025 10:19

jasflowers · 07/11/2025 10:12

Agree
I would rather see enforcement of current regs, rather than more regs that wont be enforced.
Council housing dept's have no staff and no money.

To make my point, the OP had no certification going back 8 years, despite it being a jailable offence.

Current regs do nothing to address the housing crisis even if they are enforced. I rented from 1999 to 2021 so I've experienced the absolute Wild West of private renting and letting agents and I've seen improvement for tenants' rights over that time but the crisis has got worse. Extreme measures need to be taken.

PumpkinTwistyWindToots · 07/11/2025 10:17

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 10:08

Sure, but all these things make life harder for good landlords who abide by all the rules, while bad landlords don't give a shit and are mostly non-compliant.

At a time when governments have abandoned their housing responsibilities and provided no social housing for years, good landlords are not the enemy. I think people forget this.

Good landlords are collateral damage but what's the alternative? The renter reforms are part of a number of approaches to tackle the housing crisis. Property conglomerates are more likely to adhere to regulations than individual landlords so it doesn't bother me that non professionals will be forced out of the market. As long as local authorities continue to build and invest in new housing alongside making it harder to evict private tenants the direction is the right one.

jasflowers · 07/11/2025 10:12

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 10:08

Sure, but all these things make life harder for good landlords who abide by all the rules, while bad landlords don't give a shit and are mostly non-compliant.

At a time when governments have abandoned their housing responsibilities and provided no social housing for years, good landlords are not the enemy. I think people forget this.

Agree
I would rather see enforcement of current regs, rather than more regs that wont be enforced.
Council housing dept's have no staff and no money.

To make my point, the OP had no certification going back 8 years, despite it being a jailable offence.

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 07/11/2025 10:10

Get your electric and gas safety checks done now! This is a legal requirement.

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 10:08

PumpkinTwistyWindToots · 07/11/2025 10:00

The landlord will need to be very sure that the market will allow the price they want before evicting their tenant won't they? Any house will sell at the right price. If a landlord evicts their tenant to market the property but markets it too high that's their own fault and problem. You say 'what if they can't sell' as if it's not within the seller's control whether they sell or not.

Sure, but all these things make life harder for good landlords who abide by all the rules, while bad landlords don't give a shit and are mostly non-compliant.

At a time when governments have abandoned their housing responsibilities and provided no social housing for years, good landlords are not the enemy. I think people forget this.

ComfortFoodCafe · 07/11/2025 10:06

A terrible landlord finally getting punished what a blessing to see! About bloody time.

PumpkinTwistyWindToots · 07/11/2025 10:00

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 09:41

And what if a landlord wants to sell, can't sell and wants to relet to avoid house being empty. I'm not aware of any provision for that in the RRB. It's a blunt tool.

The landlord will need to be very sure that the market will allow the price they want before evicting their tenant won't they? Any house will sell at the right price. If a landlord evicts their tenant to market the property but markets it too high that's their own fault and problem. You say 'what if they can't sell' as if it's not within the seller's control whether they sell or not.

VickyEadieofThigh · 07/11/2025 09:58

Woodlend · 06/11/2025 20:01

I do always find it funny that you need a gas and electricity safety certificate for a rental property and yet what proportion of owner occupiers have this done? Pretty much no one.

But yes, op Id expect a landlord to have done this. You’re going to get what’s coming to you. You’ll have declared the income to HMRC too?

That's because you're putting someone else potentially at risk via the transaction of renting them a property. What you do in your own house is up to you.

AllTheChatsAboutTea · 07/11/2025 09:52

@Saywhetw The law has changed since I worked as a solicitor doing possession proceedings but I’ve done some legal research this morning.

In the non-binding county court case of Carson Property Ltd v Monty Shooktz [2018] it was held that the GSC must be provided to the tenant at the start of the tenancy and the LL is unlikely to be able to serve a s21 notice where it is served late.

However, in the case of Trecarrell House [2020] the Court of Appeal held that a LL who fails to provide the tenant with a copy of the gas safety certificate before the start of the tenancy can remedy that default by providing the copy before serving a s21 notice, so long as the certificate was in force at commencement of the tenancy.

The position may be different if the LL has not obtained a certificate at all before the tenant took up occupation or if he has not retained a copy of the certificate that he can provide later on.

In the non-binding county court case of Byrne v Harwood [2022] the judge set aside a possession order, finding that if a LL has not obtained a GSC at all before the tenant takes up occupation he will be forever prevented from serving a s21 notice. However in another county court case Cassell and Cassell v Sidhu and Sidhu [2025] the court held on appeal that the LL’s failure to provide the tenant with a compliant GSC (the certificate omitted the LL’s name and address) was remedied by the provision of two subsequent complaint annual certificates during the course of the tenancy and the s21 notice wa therefore valid. This case is also non-binding and does not align with Byrne so the position remains unclear.

I imagine your solicitor will say that your options are to either (1) negotiate with your tenant (possibly by offering her compensation) or (2) to rectify the default (including deposit protection, prescribed information, EPC, etc), serve the s21 notice, issue possession proceedings, and wait to see whether the court makes a possession order. The first option is probably cheaper, quicker and less uncertain.

randomchap · 07/11/2025 09:51

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 09:41

And what if a landlord wants to sell, can't sell and wants to relet to avoid house being empty. I'm not aware of any provision for that in the RRB. It's a blunt tool.

If they can't sell then they can lower the price until it does.

Or move in themselves and rent out the house they are living in

Or set up a company and sell it to the company, then let it out, that might get round the new regs.

Essentially, if this clause wasn't in there, the dodgy landlords would just say they are planning to sell, put in on right move for a week, then re-let at a higher rent.

LlamaNoDrama · 07/11/2025 09:48

I guess being a terrible landlord does actually have has consequences after all.

TeenagersAngst · 07/11/2025 09:41

jasflowers · 07/11/2025 09:12

Why would that happen?

A LL can evict for sale, to redevelop, so move back in, either themselves or family members.

What the RRB protects is LLs evicting for no other reason than to increase the rent.
Which is what that Labour MP did and then had to resign.

If a LL can evict but then re-let, you ve basically allowed No Fault Evictions.

And what if a landlord wants to sell, can't sell and wants to relet to avoid house being empty. I'm not aware of any provision for that in the RRB. It's a blunt tool.

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