I don't like how people tend to speak to their children

Sometimes I don’t have the words to explain why I am whingey either.

So you used bribery?

That makes absolutely no sense. If he didn’t want to get in the car then by your own logic why would you do anything to persuade him?

I actually agree to an extent because when I hear myself talk to DD like that it doesn’t make me feel great.

But the responses to this thread are spot on. I’ve usually tried the nicer approach a billion times before resorting to something a bit more blunt.

I, too, was the best parent in the world before having kids.

Such is reality. Oh to live on planet FuzzyWuzzy! My kids are spirited arseholes and so am I. They’re very loved but they benefit from clear direction and, when sometimes required, my proverbial iron first.

Tell me you don't have children.. without telling me you don't have children....

I've just screamed at my daughter to get into her own bed.

Prior to that I asked her politely to be quiet not to wake her baby sister.
Following that I pleaded with her.
Following that I asked her if she would like to go back to her own bed.
I then threatened her with returning to her own bed.
I then told her to go back to her own bed.

Yeah it's probably not a nice way to talk to someone. But now she is being quiet in her own room.

Yup. My daughter is 10 and everything is 'one minute' 'two seconds' 'I just need to'. I just need to pet the cat at this exact minute. I just need to move the entire contents of this box into that box at this exact minute. I just urgently need to check if there are any snails in the garden. Children don't just always, or often, respond to a polite request no matter how you couch the theory. They have their own inner worlds where very different things are important to them than what we need to be done in that moment.

So I do say please as a rule. But if it comes a point that we are now late, I have already asked several times and the matter is now urgent and I really need to strongly get my point across - then no I don't say please.

That mirrors adult communication.

"You're getting a little close to my flower bed with the leaf blower, please watch out"

"Please Steve, watch the flowers "

"Steve, turn the leaf blower off now!", or if necessary, I may switch it off at the plug myself.

Restart the conversation without the noise of the leaf blower

If someone is not listening to what you have to say, and what you have to say is important or urgent, you need to get their attention. Good manners are important but please diminishes the urgency of a request. It's not appropriate for every single request.

The headbutting thing upthread is a joke but if I saw an adult behave like my children sometimes do I’d just never spend any time with them at all again, so no tone needed. The only other situation which is similar to parenting little kids IME is line management - I’ve managed some people (thankfully not many) who do need to receive instructions in the exact same direct language I use to instruct my 5 and 3 year old because despite being grown adults talking to their boss they still think any request phrased too politely is an optional suggestion.

What’s amusing is that my 2 year old does this to me - when he wants me to take something from him he just puts it out in the air and says “thank you” expecting me to take it. It works pretty well for him.

Do you have children? I’m going to assume not.

The child psychology stuff I’ve read says that when you say things like “do you want to put your shoes on” or “would you mind putting your shoes on” it’s confusing for the toddler as they don’t understand that it’s something they really to do. At least when they are little the advice is to give them clear and simple commands (or clear and simple choices sometimes). Given my eldest’s response to “it’s time to change your nappy” today has been all of the following - “in five minutes”, “not yet”, “ I need to eat first”, “I need my puzzle”, “I need to cuddle friends first”, “later”, “nooooooo”, “I don’t have a poo (he did!)” and a few others - it’s also a little hard to maintain your best manners given you do actually need to change their nappy about 6 times a day.

If they were adults you could explain all the details of why they need to go with you now and what's happening next and the time you went to the zoo with your mum when you were small and how you felt about seeing the baby giraffe and how that's related to how you felt when your own children were born.
With a 3 year old, not so much.

Very in agreement re disingenuous "niceness", only want to add that in adult-adult interactions it's just as frustrating.

I do think there are a lot of parallels in the boss-employee or mentor-mentee adult relationships to parenting. In the ideal senior role model/boss/manager/mentor we want somebody who is flexible and understanding, but ultimately gives clear directions, is a strong role model and knows when to take charge. They are easy going enough to let small things slide, but take important things seriously. They give us freedom over decisions we are able to make autonomously, but guide us firmly where appropriate, so we can learn from their experience and knowledge. They seem to like and respect us, and will warmly praise good work, but will also challenge us and be honest, frank and fair about areas we can work on to improve.

Eg: Boss asks
"Do you think you could please get that report done when you're able?"

And on Monday they ask why it isn't done and appear frustrated, angry or critical.

Vs
"I want you on the report. It needs to be in by Monday" (obviously with a willingness to listen if there are obstacles to you doing this). On Monday as the report is done on time, you are thanked and/or praised.

We all know which scenario is better and the "please" matters not. Adults and children hate fake-nice indirectness and having to second guess the consequences. We all want those in authority over us to set clear expectations without being despots.

I don't mean to sound confrontational, but I absolutely disagree and am curious as to where/how you have acquired this view of young people?

I find the majority of children just as capable of empathy as adults, and in some cases more so - children are often genuinely distraught at others' misery, especially if they fear they themselves have caused it.

And I think children are social sponges - most of them absolutely soak up and naturally replicate the behaviour they are exposed to, without even trying. After all that's how they learn to eat, speak, walk, and everything else, for the most part. Copying others.

At parents evening it's true in 99% of cases that happy, respectful kids have happy, respectful parents. And vice versa!

In my experience, parents who are domineering and demand obedience rarely have kind children. They may have conditioned children who can behave compliantly in certain circumstances out of fear of reprisals - but conditioning is a much thinner veneer than genuine kindness, which comes from the heart and is taught by the heart.

I raise my daughter as softly as I can because of my own background, which was full of shouting and violence. There still comes a point where we were supposed to leave the house five minutes ago and she still isn't ready to leave despite multiple reminders and sometimes even a tick list. So she does get the odd sharp 'do this, and do it now'. There's a reason it works when the previous half hour of cajoling hasn't. She manages to get it done and is completely unbothered by life. I'm the adult, she's the child, I'm giving instructions, and she's supposed to follow them. That's all there is to that.

I often start out with please can you get your shoes, coats, bags on. Then when we are about to head out and missing these items I turn into a drill sergeant, SHOES ON NOW. You don’t want me to have that tone you listen the first, second , third time. I think we accidentally train them not to listen until “ the tone”

Me too 😂
@DameEdnaAverage2

It's the deliberately obtuse parentese which gets me.

Why would I be telling a fellow adult to put their shoes on or to go to bed?

I think people without children don’t realise just how much verbalisation there is between you which means a constant stream of niceties just isn’t possible, in the same way I don’t speak to DP in the same way I did when we were dating (although still not rudely).

It’s no exaggeration to say my day starts with a bombardment of questions at 5.30-6am. What’s for breakfast, I didn’t want that I wanted X, why can’t I have X, he’s taken my chair, that’s my chair, I want to sit on the floor, but he sat on the floor last week, that’s mine, can I have the TV on, I want a drink, not that drink another one, I spilt my drink, he took my cup… on, and on, on for a solid 13 or 14 hours, peppered with relentless questions such as ‘to squirrels, are we giants?’ (Asked today by DD). I’m not joking when I say I probably answer 500 questions a day, alongside having to command every tiny thing that you’ve probably never even had to remind another human being to do - I even have to tell my son not to throw himself down the stairs and instead go down on his bum every single time we go up or downstairs. This then goes on for a solid decade with each and every child, and in my case, I am also being woken at least once a night by a child who wants to speak to me.

I hope it makes more sense now!

This. Some mornings a soft growl is required to get everyone to get their shit together and leave the door.