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Neighbour has put up huge Unite the Kingdom flag

990 replies

UrticaDioca · 05/10/2025 15:05

I am gutted. I haven't seen a single flag in my town, and suddenly this union jack goes up two doors over with the words 'Unite the Kingdom' printed on it in capital letters. The flag is huge and flying from a pole on top of their shed, but it's in their own garden so nothing can be done.

I am the daughter of an immigrant mother and therefore mixed race. Now I have to see this fucking flag waving at me every time I look out of my kitchen or living room windows.

OP posts:
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14
Grammarnut · 07/10/2025 09:41

AnnaFrith · 06/10/2025 20:13

The poster's point is that at the time the BBC documentary was made, in 2004, the claims the BNP made about the grooming gangs were seen as evidence of their racism.
Presumably also by all the people who ignored the evidence that the claims were true, due to their 'anti-racism'.

I think this is true. My late DH was a youth worker in the 70s. He had regular complaints from local w/c parents that their daughters were being targeted by some immigrants. He, and his colleagues, dismissed this as racism - i.e. they don't want their daughters having non-white boyfriends. When he heard about the grooming gangs and the trials he was contrite at this dismissal.

Grammarnut · 07/10/2025 09:30

JHound · 06/10/2025 23:07

Oh of course the old “look around” as evidence.

You seem to be taking comments from a handful of people on social media as evidence of some widespread thought process (with exception of campaigners for reparations for slavery (for the descendants of victims - the descendants of slaveowners were already compensated) which has been about for awhile but which will never happen.

The rest suggests you need to stay off social media for a while?

Edited

MN is the only social media I go on, in fact, and mainly the feminist boards. I follow a couple of education blogs (I support SSP and explicit teaching having seen the damage the altrnative brings) and several GR feminists e.g. Milli Hill, Helen Joyce. That's it. Probably no more social media than you.
Re reparations for slavery, you seem to not understand that no-one now living is responsible for any slavery unless they are currently involved in it, in e.g. the continent of Africa (c.9M slaves of various sorts e.g. slaves, forced marriage, child soldiers, child workers in colbalt mines etc.) in India (debt slaves) etc. No living person owes anyone, whoever they are descended from, reparations for slavery - and who gets paid? Ancient Sumeria, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Turkey...slaved, so did the Vikings, the Saxons, the Arabs. Slavery has existed for millenia and until c.1750 was considered normal, though unfortunate for slaves (and there were charities in many European countries dedicated to raising ransoms to pay the Barbary Pirates for enslaved Europeans). A handful of people during those thousands of years stood up and said slavery was wrong - the brave - but not until Europe in the eighteenth century (where slavery had been outlawed between the 11th and 13th centuries) began to have anti-slavery campaigns did anyone manage to do anything about ending the scourge upon humanity: one which still continues.
The UK constitution has, since 1215, mandated that no-one should be deprived of legally owned property. In 1833 the UK government borrowed £20M to buy the slaves mostly from West Indian plantations in order to free them (they remained bond servants until 1838 mainly for economic reasons). The slaves were owned by the banks who had funded their purchase in the first place, under a regime that made slave owning legal (we may not like that, but that was the legal situation in the W. Indies, though not the UK). Not to pay the banks the money owed by plantation owners would have caused possibly world recession (20M was one-fifth of the UK's GDP in the 1830s) and certainly bankruptcy in the West Indies, which meant there would be no work for the freed slaves or anyone else.
It was not 'compensation' it was staving off recession by paying for legally purchased property - it sticks in our craw (and probably the craw of the British at the time) but it had to be done. The UK repaid the (rolled-over) loan c. 2015.
I have answered your 'oh, look around' point in another post but it irked me that you acccused me (a historian with several degrees) of getting information from social media, so I have bothered to refute you.

Scrummyfun · 07/10/2025 07:19

There’s something very ironic about this thread (the neighbour has erected a United Kingdom flag and this thread shows how even on a parenting website - we are very very far from United)

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 07/10/2025 01:00

Grammarnut · 06/10/2025 23:57

I am looking at CRT, which posits both white fragility and white supremacy as elements of white racism. CRT uses the oppressed/oppressor narrative which purveys victimhood on all the global majority, whilst reserving guilt and opprobrium for Europeans and European culture. This worldview led to many on Oct 8th 2023 to praise and vindicate Hamas' actions in southern Israel as an act of rebellion against colonization - notwithstanding the Jews living in Israel for the most part are indigenous (several hundred thousand having taken refuge in the new state when expelled by the Moslem countries in which they had lived for hundreds of years).

That rape, murder of children and infants and the killing of the innocent were applauded by many in the West is appalling - and shows total historical ignorance.

It is utterly abhorrent that anyone should applaud or otherwise celebrate the atrocities that were perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th 2023. But you make it sound as if this was a "normal" mainstream view, which it wasn't. I know a lot of people who have supported the plight of the Palestinian people for decades. Every single one of them expressed nothing but horror in response to the Hamas attacks. Yes, there will always be an extreme minority who celebrate evil acts, but they are not influential voices in our society.

To be honest, I find it hard to relate to the concerns that you're expressing because I just don't recognise the issues that you're raising as being particularly relevant to the society that I am living in. As a white person, I don't feel that I'm vilified or asked to constantly feel guilty and I don't see an issue with learning about the less glorious aspects of our history. I just don't really understand exactly what you're concerned about.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 07/10/2025 00:47

saraclara · 06/10/2025 23:21

I wonder when people like Tommy Robinson will act like proper leaders and condemn this kind of thing?

He will never condemn it. He is too busy whipping it up.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 07/10/2025 00:44

Petitchat · 06/10/2025 23:07

But they did it?
They united 150, 000 people....

You can't really "unite" people who are already in agreement. You can bring them together by organising an event, but it isn't the same thing.

The far right will only ever divide the nation, because decent people will never accept their hateful ideology.

TooBigForMyBoots · 07/10/2025 00:34

saraclara · 06/10/2025 23:21

I wonder when people like Tommy Robinson will act like proper leaders and condemn this kind of thing?

Never. They will never condemn violence against those they hate. That is Tommy Robinson's first objective.

Grammarnut · 06/10/2025 23:57

JHound · 06/10/2025 23:07

Oh of course the old “look around” as evidence.

You seem to be taking comments from a handful of people on social media as evidence of some widespread thought process (with exception of campaigners for reparations for slavery (for the descendants of victims - the descendants of slaveowners were already compensated) which has been about for awhile but which will never happen.

The rest suggests you need to stay off social media for a while?

Edited

I am looking at CRT, which posits both white fragility and white supremacy as elements of white racism. CRT uses the oppressed/oppressor narrative which purveys victimhood on all the global majority, whilst reserving guilt and opprobrium for Europeans and European culture. This worldview led to many on Oct 8th 2023 to praise and vindicate Hamas' actions in southern Israel as an act of rebellion against colonization - notwithstanding the Jews living in Israel for the most part are indigenous (several hundred thousand having taken refuge in the new state when expelled by the Moslem countries in which they had lived for hundreds of years).

That rape, murder of children and infants and the killing of the innocent were applauded by many in the West is appalling - and shows total historical ignorance.

Grammarnut · 06/10/2025 23:47

CurlewKate · 06/10/2025 19:28

I really don’t see this happening. What I see is a welcome change from the “Our Island Story” type of history which was prevalent in my childhood, and a deeper understanding and analysis of our heritage. Do you really think, for example, that it’s a good idea NOT to look at where Thomas Bertrand in Mansfield Park got his money? Or to consider the impact of Colonialism on India and Pakistan? Or for white Australians not to acknowledge their role in the virtual extinction of the indigenous people?

I said most people missed that Sir Thomas is a slave owner so of course I want it pointed out - that's why I pointed it out. But though 'Our Island Story' sort of history had its own biases what has replaced it is far more than just analysis and re-evaluation; it frequently gives the impression that the presenters hate their country and see only bad things about it and also (to my dismay as a historian) contains moral anachronism: judging the past using the morals and mindset of the present, utterly improper. And many young people have imbibed this. I have listened to friend's young adult offspring saying that things like grooming gangs and removing our history are what we deserve because of what we did to others. This is not healthy, rational or true.

Grammarnut · 06/10/2025 23:39

Efacsen · 06/10/2025 19:42

So patronising

How is what I said patronising? D'you not see these things?

PandoraSocks · 06/10/2025 23:24

saraclara · 06/10/2025 23:21

I wonder when people like Tommy Robinson will act like proper leaders and condemn this kind of thing?

That is shocking.

saraclara · 06/10/2025 23:21

I wonder when people like Tommy Robinson will act like proper leaders and condemn this kind of thing?

Neighbour has put up huge Unite the Kingdom flag
Petitchat · 06/10/2025 23:09

PandoraSocks · 06/10/2025 19:14

Talk TV this morning, Mike Graham and Rafe Hayden-Mankoo were saying that in their opinion the marchers and flag flyers are the backbone of Britain and are decent British folk who are tired of what they have to endure

Oh, well that must make it true then!

Good conversation. Thanks 🤣

Petitchat · 06/10/2025 23:07

Timeforabitofpeace · 06/10/2025 22:47

I can’t imagine anyone less capable of uniting people than that lot.

But they did it?
They united 150, 000 people....

JHound · 06/10/2025 23:07

Grammarnut · 06/10/2025 18:31

All of it. Have a look around. Reparations for slavery, white fragility, only white people are racist, no-one else ever is, everything produced by European society is suspect. And you can add a layer of trans ideology on top, as misogynistic and homophobic icing (should go well with supporting Hamas, who agree with both ideas).

Edited

Oh of course the old “look around” as evidence.

You seem to be taking comments from a handful of people on social media as evidence of some widespread thought process (with exception of campaigners for reparations for slavery (for the descendants of victims - the descendants of slaveowners were already compensated) which has been about for awhile but which will never happen.

The rest suggests you need to stay off social media for a while?

TempestTost · 06/10/2025 22:58

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/10/2025 21:59

It's interesting. I have spent a lot of time in different countries, and one of the things that has consistently made me proud of being British has been our willingness as a nation to face up to some of the darker aspects of our history and to acknowledge the negative impact that Britain has had on many parts of the world - from what I have observed, not all countries are willing to confront the past with this kind of openness and honesty, and I see their reluctance to do so as a weakness. Of course, it doesn't mean that we can't celebrate the positive aspects of our heritage as well, or all of the good things that our ancestors achieved.

It's fascinating to me that some people perceive these things so differently. I see it as a sign of a confidence in Britain that we can own our history with all its warts, and that we don't feel the need to gloss over the shameful bits. Others seem to feel that we should just gloss over the bad stuff because that's somehow more patriotic or something. But what's the point of patriotism if it is based on ignorance?

Yes, it's a bit interesting.

My Island Story is actually fairly straightforward where people are doing things like going around conquering people, and the ones being conquered are always unhappy about it. Till the next chapter when some time has passed and they are all one people.

It's meant for children obviously but you'd have be rather slow not to see what is going on in terms of successive power struggles.

Jumpingthruhoops · 06/10/2025 22:55

Amandasummers · 05/10/2025 15:16

Is it just me or does “now I have to see this fucking flag” some sort of insinuation that you find the flag insulting? You literally live here? Why the offence?

This! I find this rhetoric utterly bizarre. To those who don't like our national flag, I'd definitely say that's a you problem.

TempestTost · 06/10/2025 22:54

Don't worry about your neighbours flag, OP.

Why not just put up your own? Even if they do happen to be racists, they don't own the flag.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/10/2025 22:50

Timeforabitofpeace · 06/10/2025 22:47

I can’t imagine anyone less capable of uniting people than that lot.

Indeed, but I think we all know that it wasn't really their intention to unite people in any case.

Timeforabitofpeace · 06/10/2025 22:47

I can’t imagine anyone less capable of uniting people than that lot.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/10/2025 21:59

CurlewKate · 06/10/2025 19:28

I really don’t see this happening. What I see is a welcome change from the “Our Island Story” type of history which was prevalent in my childhood, and a deeper understanding and analysis of our heritage. Do you really think, for example, that it’s a good idea NOT to look at where Thomas Bertrand in Mansfield Park got his money? Or to consider the impact of Colonialism on India and Pakistan? Or for white Australians not to acknowledge their role in the virtual extinction of the indigenous people?

It's interesting. I have spent a lot of time in different countries, and one of the things that has consistently made me proud of being British has been our willingness as a nation to face up to some of the darker aspects of our history and to acknowledge the negative impact that Britain has had on many parts of the world - from what I have observed, not all countries are willing to confront the past with this kind of openness and honesty, and I see their reluctance to do so as a weakness. Of course, it doesn't mean that we can't celebrate the positive aspects of our heritage as well, or all of the good things that our ancestors achieved.

It's fascinating to me that some people perceive these things so differently. I see it as a sign of a confidence in Britain that we can own our history with all its warts, and that we don't feel the need to gloss over the shameful bits. Others seem to feel that we should just gloss over the bad stuff because that's somehow more patriotic or something. But what's the point of patriotism if it is based on ignorance?

AngelicKaty · 06/10/2025 20:57

Vordooflore · 06/10/2025 17:51

You hate the country you live in?

Where did @UrticaDioca say that?

TooBigForMyBoots · 06/10/2025 20:22

AnnaFrith · 06/10/2025 17:10

Obviously I know that lots of people say that Tommy Robinson is a racist.
Unfortunately, they seem to be mostly the same people who say that some men are women.
They also seem to be the same people who say that anyone concerned about the massive rise in immigration is an ignorant racist bigot.
So I'd prefer to find out what he's actually said, then make my own decision about him.

Tommy Robinson is a racist.
Transwomen are men.

https://www.cleveland.pcc.police.uk/news/redcar-family-suffers-racist-abuse/

Family living in fear after innocent park video is hijacked by far-right trolls - Cleveland Police and Crime Commissioner

Redcar family suffers racist abuse after far right hi-jacks and manipulates innocent video of a family day out

https://www.cleveland.pcc.police.uk/news/redcar-family-suffers-racist-abuse/

AnnaFrith · 06/10/2025 20:13

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 06/10/2025 17:52

That good old bastion of anti racism.Wink

The poster's point is that at the time the BBC documentary was made, in 2004, the claims the BNP made about the grooming gangs were seen as evidence of their racism.
Presumably also by all the people who ignored the evidence that the claims were true, due to their 'anti-racism'.

TooBigForMyBoots · 06/10/2025 19:51

IAmThePrettiestManOnMyIsland · 06/10/2025 15:41

BBC Panorama did a documentary on the EDL and TR in 2004 where he spoke about grooming gangs.

The grooming gangs were first exposed by Ann Cryer MP in 2002.

Members the BNP were recorded discussing it, briefly, by Panorama in 2004. It was not exposed nor was it "investigated" by TR.

Following The Times actually exposing the scandal everyone took notice.

Around 2013 Tommy Robinson started using the cases for Internet content thereby jeopardising trials.

He didnt expose the grooming gangs. The victims and the supportive people around them exposed the grooming gangs. TR disrespects them by taking credit for their hard, painful work. But then he doesn't give a shit about them, he's shown that already. Its all about creating Content for his Internet fans.

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