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AIBU?

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AIBU to feel angrey after Holland Park School open morning?

289 replies

GentleMintCat · 20/09/2025 18:07

I’m viewing a few secondary schools at the moment. We’ve seen some private ones (sadly not an option unless DD gets a huge bursary). Yesterday I went to see Holland Park School — which has always felt like our safest option since we live very close — but came out devastated and rather angry.

Yes, the grounds are gorgeous, with a shiny, modern building, a new sports pitch, and spacious classrooms with lovely views over Holland Park. But the atmosphere? Absolutely grim. The classrooms were deadly quiet — no energy, no spark, no laughter, no questions, no enthusiasm.

Alright, I guess that’s fine in maths or English, but even in drama, music, and art… in art, the children were like in a traditional exam setting, sitting at their desks, copying a dull sketch from the screen in complete silence, while the teacher walked around peering over their shoulders. I couldn’t sense a shred of creativity, joy, or curiosity in that room. It felt almost like a military camp. Even the bell sounded like a fire alarm — the sort you see in American prisons in films.

When I asked students what they loved about the school, they couldn’t answer. I rephrased and asked what was one thing they were excited about coming to school, but they seemed unsure. What they were actually excited to talk about was “refocus rooms,” detention room, and punishments. They really wanted us to see the detention room which was on the ground floor, a dark space with heavy black curtains where you’re sent for forgetting your planner, doodling in a workbook, wearing the wrong colour socks, missing a part of your uniform, or being two minutes late. This lovely, polite girl said she had already been there twice this year - once for doodling because she got carried away 'in a boring lesson' and another for forgetting her planner, which they have to carry with them at all times.

I went in Soviet school and honestly, even they didn’t have detention rooms. If anyone misbehaved, they would do extra fitness classes or some do some gardening and cleaning for school grounds, and parents were called in. I’m not saying that was better by any means, but honestly — how the hell have we normalised this? What are we thinking as a society, treating children like inmates inside schools, and then acting shocked when they go wild on the streets after being in this prison-like environment all day long?

All I want is a normal, happy school for my child. Is that too much to ask? And do I have to pay £30k a year to avoid this 'military silence + constant detentions'? Is that what we call a good education in the 21st century? I couldn’t stop thinking: what kind of young people will come out of this school environment — happy, curious, caring, loving, creative, enthusiastic and empathetic?

OP posts:
FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:45

VikaOlson · 20/09/2025 23:40

In real life, and in work life, mistakes happen sometimes and people are imperfect.
Not every mistake and slip up needs punishment.

in real life, it's not acceptable to turn up late at meetings, you lose clients and contracts if you can't be bothered to show on time with them, and you lose a lot of point - if any chance of getting the job - if you are late at an interview.

Being late to class is not a "mistake", it's kids not bothering to stop chatting or messing around at break or in the corridors. It's not something that should be encouraged, why should it?

Kirova · 20/09/2025 23:45

GentleMintCat · 20/09/2025 18:32

I’m angry because I don’t have many options. I don’t know where you are, but we don’t have grammar schools here, and out of six secondary schools in the borough, I realistically have a chance at only two, as I don’t belong to the Catholic Church or Church of England.

There are a lot of schools in the vicinity though - and although you won't realistically get Cardinal Vaughan or Sacred Heart or whatever if you're not coming up from a Catholic primary, there are plenty other options. What about KAA if you're local to Holland Park?

Needmorelego · 20/09/2025 23:44

@FancyQuoter that's very true.
I don't know the solution.
I just see so many teenagers being bored and frustrated with the school system - which leads to the poor behaviour 🙁
Something needs to change.

MaidOfSteel · 20/09/2025 23:43

Guytheskiinstructor · 20/09/2025 23:01

OP, I’m so sorry about the culture shock and the reality check you’ve had.

English state secondaries are truly terrible places. Massive, badly funded and deeply unhappy. They’re all about discipline and obedience. And humiliation too. And the food! Chips, chicken twizzlers and white bread sandwiches every single day. Nothing but UPFs.

Teachers are often very young and very silly. Perfect patsies for parroting the management speak from the “SLT” and meting out punishments without ever pausing to think or question anything that goes on around them.

How parents are not up in arms about this (and actually cheer this stuff on) is genuinely beyond me. Such a waste of tax and their children’s education. And futures, even. Because the system definitely won’t set
them up for 21st century life.

Your choices are, I think, to go private (but calculate the costs carefully and allow for a minimum of 5% annual increases on fees), or maybe move to Scotland where the system is far more humane.

Don’t even think about Scotland. The schools here are failing, and failing badly. The SNP have run what was a great system into the ground, sadly. Maybe things will start to improve after the elections in May, though. I’m not holding my breath, like.

Needmorelego · 20/09/2025 23:41

The "over subscribed" thing could be because in London you get 6 choices.
If you only had 3 choices I wonder what the numbers would be.

FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:41

Needmorelego · 20/09/2025 23:37

If a child is seen to be clearly enjoying helping in the library or doing some gardening or whatever then they should be encouraged to volunteer or join a club. Giving them the opportunity to be doing something they actually enjoy and feel pride in may change their attitude to school and not misbehave.
Doing it as a punishment is about losing your free time.
Why do so many misbehave? Because they're bored, frustrated or struggling in the lesson.
Sending them to isolation to stare at a wall or do some lines is time means they are having the punishment of losing free time but wouldn't it be better to try and encourage positive activities to make them see actual alternatives to just causing disruption in school?

Ultimately, you can't change the curriculum (well, maybe we should, but basics still need to be learnt)

Yes, it might be boring to learn your timetables, French grammar and historical events, but not everything is "fun". It's part of learning, that's life.

By secondary they should resign themselves that sometimes lessons are not "fun" and a jolly. You can't turn absolutely everything into a party.

Some kids love arts and music, other hate it with a passion. Some kids hate Maths, others enjoy the challenge. We need discipline so everyone has a chance to learn.

VikaOlson · 20/09/2025 23:40

FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:37

why should there be any tolerance for lateness etc..?

The bell rings, they go to class, they bring the correct homework and supplies, how hard is it?

It's standard in many schools, it's just basic respect for the teacher and the rest of the class. Never stops the kids to be cheeky and playful.

In real life, and in work life, mistakes happen sometimes and people are imperfect.
Not every mistake and slip up needs punishment.

Needmorelego · 20/09/2025 23:37

Trendyname · 20/09/2025 23:25

If you start sending kids to gardens, library to discipline them, they would be more inclined to do things which get them into detention.

If a child is seen to be clearly enjoying helping in the library or doing some gardening or whatever then they should be encouraged to volunteer or join a club. Giving them the opportunity to be doing something they actually enjoy and feel pride in may change their attitude to school and not misbehave.
Doing it as a punishment is about losing your free time.
Why do so many misbehave? Because they're bored, frustrated or struggling in the lesson.
Sending them to isolation to stare at a wall or do some lines is time means they are having the punishment of losing free time but wouldn't it be better to try and encourage positive activities to make them see actual alternatives to just causing disruption in school?

FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:37

VikaOlson · 20/09/2025 23:20

Yes, zero tolerance on lateness, forgetfulness, untidiness etc

Edited

why should there be any tolerance for lateness etc..?

The bell rings, they go to class, they bring the correct homework and supplies, how hard is it?

It's standard in many schools, it's just basic respect for the teacher and the rest of the class. Never stops the kids to be cheeky and playful.

WearyAuldWumman · 20/09/2025 23:36

@Guytheskiinstructor

Certainly, we generally don't police things like make-up and so on here - though certain jewellery and hairstyles aren't allowed in PE for health and safety reasons.

All secondary schools in my area have a uniform, but the last time that I did supply (well over a year ago) the school had stopped insisting on it during lockdown. Secondary uniforms across the LA are the same - black skirts or trousers with a white shirt plus the school tie. Subsidised black blazer with braid and school badge for senior school (usually provided if the cost is a problem).

There are problems with major disciplinary problems (violence) not being dealt with properly, however.

FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:34

Trendyname · 20/09/2025 23:25

If you start sending kids to gardens, library to discipline them, they would be more inclined to do things which get them into detention.

quite

Between reading your book in peace, or doing French,Maths or any other subject they dislike, the choice is a quick one

Guytheskiinstructor · 20/09/2025 23:30

WearyAuldWumman · 20/09/2025 23:17

@Guytheskiinstructor The system might seem more humane, but standards have fallen in Scotland (courtesy of the Curriculum for Excellence) and discipline is poor in many schools.

Yes, you’re right! The stats do show that.

But I genuinely care less about that than children being brought up in an environment where they’re treated with decency, kindness and warmth even, given some freedom and responsibility and left to discover the consequences of, say, missing homework for themselves. And then learning self-discipline through that and picking up some decision-making skills and judgement along the way.

I’m genuinely worried about what’s happening in England. The kids here aren’t allowed
to do any of the things that are part and parcel of growing up, like experimenting with hair, make up and clothes, developing their own sense of style, expressing their personality, challenging adults/authority figures, learning to think for themselves and to self-regulate.

The system is creating a generation of helpless zombies.

The refrain I keep hearing from teachers is that if you “manage the small stuff, the big
stuff will take care of itself”. Which in practice means that the kids are zealously punished for things like nail varnish, the wrong kind of shoe and a missing planner, while bullying, both physical and emotional, misogyny and racism are rampant, because the teachers are a) sub-par, b) very busy handing out detentions and c) only focused on “the small stuff”.

WearyAuldWumman · 20/09/2025 23:30

@SpanThatWorld

Five headteachers in three years.

Oof. Point taken.

FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:28

Miriabelle · 20/09/2025 22:29

Are you sure it’s oversubscribed given recent well-publicised scandals?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61325597.amp

According to the local authority website, it has been over-suscribed for at least the last 5 years.

Total available places, between 232 and 248 (ish, years vary)
On Time Applications
Total Applications 2025
974

in 2023: total applications: 1438
in 2022: 1726

Number of applications has gone down a lot, but it's still massively oversuscribed

SpanThatWorld · 20/09/2025 23:27

Toastea · 20/09/2025 22:23

It was back in the 80s/90s when it was one of the schools politicians sent their children to. It was known for being chaotic and had poor standards, from what I remember (I had a friend who was there, but who left because of those issues). It's since become an academy.

Agree re strict and soulless systems. I don't know schools in that area of London, so can't suggest anything, but sympathies as there isn't always much choice.

I've heard good things about Marylebone Girls' and Marylebone Boys, both probably out of your way.

It was the 1960s when Tony Benn sent his children there. That's over 50 years ago.

A couple of Tories (Michael Gove, John Bercow) have done so more recently.

In between those times, I'm not aware of any politicians sending their kids there.

As I said upthread, so many myths...

Since 2022 the school has had 5 headteachers.

Five headteachers in three years.

Miriabelle · 20/09/2025 23:25

SapphireSeptember · 20/09/2025 23:06

So they miss all of the lesson and just write lines? Bit shit if you ask me.

DS is only 14 months, and I'm dreading him having to go to a school that's run like this . Someone on another thread recently said her DD got detention for not having her calculator in an English lesson.

In one UL school we visited we were told they have to do their work for three following subject lessons in silence in the “reset room” in order to be allowed to rejoin the rest of their classmates. There was a big window in the “reset room” so that the “naughty” kids could be supervised from behind glass. If they didn’t do their work in isolation it then proceeded to potential suspension.

It sounded awful, and despite all this panopticon surveillance not actually an environment conducive to learning. Not to mention the teachers having to pop in and out of their normal classes to set work for the pupils in “reset” — very distracting all round.

Trendyname · 20/09/2025 23:25

GentleMintCat · 20/09/2025 18:23

That's my point: how on earth have we normalised these detention rooms? I don’t know how they are designed in other schools, and I realised I had never actually asked to see one. It was just that yesterday thesw kids really wanted us to go there, while we were quite reluctant, and I can’t be thankful enough for that. I always thought it was just another normal room, or even a library where they could read a book. I could never have imagined it was such a dark, black room.

If you start sending kids to gardens, library to discipline them, they would be more inclined to do things which get them into detention.

imsotiredohsotired · 20/09/2025 23:23

I knew when I read this that the school would definitely be part of the same trust as my kids' school. Just checked. I was right.

VikaOlson · 20/09/2025 23:20

SapphireSeptember · 20/09/2025 23:06

So they miss all of the lesson and just write lines? Bit shit if you ask me.

DS is only 14 months, and I'm dreading him having to go to a school that's run like this . Someone on another thread recently said her DD got detention for not having her calculator in an English lesson.

Yes, zero tolerance on lateness, forgetfulness, untidiness etc

FancyQuoter · 20/09/2025 23:18

MyLimeGuide · 20/09/2025 22:15

Wow you are really upset about this thread aren't you!! "Decent parents" is that you then I guess? All hail you and your mean girl posts 👏

thats's a bit my point, why that constant need to dramatise absolutely everything?

Who is "upset" here? All I said was that detention for being late is neither SHAMING not a big deal. If kids over-react, surely there's something wrong?

The same way you are over-reacting, "mean girl", because I don't agree with you? Just chill, all that drama is not necessary, it's a storm in a teacup, so unnecessary.

WearyAuldWumman · 20/09/2025 23:17

@Guytheskiinstructor The system might seem more humane, but standards have fallen in Scotland (courtesy of the Curriculum for Excellence) and discipline is poor in many schools.

WearyAuldWumman · 20/09/2025 23:13

SunshineLollipopsAndRainbowsEverything · 20/09/2025 23:00

As part of a group of student teachers I went on a month’s exchange visit to Leningrad (as it was then) in 1973, to study their education system. It was during their school and college term. We had lectures in a teacher training college, so met other students, and visited schools.

I remember one infants classroom, where they were all painting landscapes - grass, trees, sky. One child painted a cottage in theirs. When we discussed the visit at the end of the day one of our group said she’d gone back to that classroom and the cottage had been painted out.

I know nothing about Holland Park but don’t think any parents should expect to see typical lively lessons when they tour schools as a group on open days. Having a constant stream of parents popping in can be very disruptive, and it’s reasonable for the teacher (and pupils) to have their attention taken up answering parents’ questions. Teachers giving their students a quiet task to get on with while this goes on can be a practical thing to do, even if it’s not their normal way of working.

Edited

When I was at the Moris Torez [sic] Institute in Moscow, we were taken to Leningrad for a fortnight and stayed in a teacher training college student hostel. I wonder whether we stayed in the same hostel? I was there in '81.

In Moscow, we'd asked to visit a school but we were told that that was not allowed.

SapphireSeptember · 20/09/2025 23:06

VikaOlson · 20/09/2025 18:38

No it's a punishment/isolation room for children who break the rules - in my son's school for example if they are late to class they get sent to refocus to sit in silence writing out lines for the duration of that lesson.

So they miss all of the lesson and just write lines? Bit shit if you ask me.

DS is only 14 months, and I'm dreading him having to go to a school that's run like this . Someone on another thread recently said her DD got detention for not having her calculator in an English lesson.

Happyjoe · 20/09/2025 23:05

CalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 20/09/2025 22:17

You’ve seen snapshots of lessons. Being devasted and angry about orderly, calm, focused classrooms is ridiculous, unless you’ve not explained yourself fully. I’ve worked in schools where chairs were thrown at me and my colleagues. Now that’s something to be angry about.

Why does it have to be 'either or'?

No chairs should be thrown at anyone, ever, let alone in a school. But detentions/isolations for wrong shoes etc is not the way to go either.

Guytheskiinstructor · 20/09/2025 23:01

OP, I’m so sorry about the culture shock and the reality check you’ve had.

English state secondaries are truly terrible places. Massive, badly funded and deeply unhappy. They’re all about discipline and obedience. And humiliation too. And the food! Chips, chicken twizzlers and white bread sandwiches every single day. Nothing but UPFs.

Teachers are often very young and very silly. Perfect patsies for parroting the management speak from the “SLT” and meting out punishments without ever pausing to think or question anything that goes on around them.

How parents are not up in arms about this (and actually cheer this stuff on) is genuinely beyond me. Such a waste of tax and their children’s education. And futures, even. Because the system definitely won’t set
them up for 21st century life.

Your choices are, I think, to go private (but calculate the costs carefully and allow for a minimum of 5% annual increases on fees), or maybe move to Scotland where the system is far more humane.