Comments because I don’t drive

Surely you understand that there are reasons for people who cannot drive, it isn't denying themselves the ability.
Some people aren't capable despite being physically capable of walking.
Not everyone is nuero typical when it comes to driving.

Agree.

It absolutely depends on where you live. There's no way any of us could have got to work on time on public transport in our area and it was cheaper for the kids to drive to school together once the oldest passed her test than pay for 3 extortionate bus passes then have them walk a mile down an unlit road with no footpath or phone reception from the bus stop.

For eg, I'm going to the gym the other side of town soon (our nearest one). With public transport I'd have to leave home at 7 to walk a mile to get the 7.30 bus with the school kids (only 4 buses a day), then walk a good mile or so down a dual carriageway at the other end. Dd1 uses the gym at the end of her road.

Dd3 has driven to work in a nearby town (maybe 14 miles) because there are no buses to get there.

But dcs 1 and 2 now live in cities with public transport and walkable amenities and rarely drive. I dream of living somewhere with decent public transport.

I agree that it does limit where you live. That's not an issue for everyone though - I am a city person, I have no interest in living anywhere other than a big city and big cities are fine for public transport.

We do have children - not having a car hasn't prevented us from having them.

We do both have driving licenses as it happens, we just don't feel the need to own a car. Once in a while we will rent one for something specific. But that's like once or twice a year max and it wouldn't be a big deal not to

The only time I’d comment on someone’s inability to drive would be if they’re then complaining because they can’t get somewhere or do something, or their partner isn’t free to drive them etc. otherwise, entirely up to you.

Personally, I couldn’t imagine living without the freedom to hop in my car and drive to the other end of the country at the drop of a hat, without having to relinquish control of my journey to unreliable public transport providers, or give up the luxury and privacy of my own vehicle. I hate sitting on cold, noisy, uncomfortable trains, often crammed in with others.

It’s also impossible to access a lot of the more remote places in the country, or would take so long as to be unfeasible.

So from my point of view, I wouldn’t judge you for it, but I wouldn’t understand why you’d deny yourself that ability.

I get it from your POV. However, when you nee time off work for appointments you'll likely need double tge time that a driver would need so you can relax on public transport rather than taking a taxi to minimise time off work.

Have you ever had lessons OP? I did, and I was surprised by how difficult I found it - I tried for a year (!) and gave up eventually because I wasn't making any progress. The anxiety was atrocious. But if you can, I would, just give it a try to have it as a skill, should your circumstances ever change. You don't have to buy a car should you get your test, I think the cost of motoring is appalling and unjustifiable if you can get by without it...but still a useful string to your bow.

I don't see the problem, you're not asking for lifts left right and centre are you? If you were then it would be an issue...

Most drivers have experienced friends/family that refuse to drive, and in many cases the only way the person can avoid driving is by relying on other people that do drive lol. So I think there's a bit of resentment there. Learning to drive is an expense, as is running a car, and some refuseniks can be quite entitled when it comes to other people ferrying them around while they proudly boast 'I don't drive!' like it's something to be proud of.

Personally unless there are health issues in the way, I do think driving is a rite of passage everyone should achieve at some point. You might not need it now but you never know when circumstances might change and you do. I find it really surreal now when I meet someone of a similar age that won't drive, as it's such an anomaly.

I don't drive and don't ask for lifts because hardly anyone I know has a car. Not everyone needs one in London. DP and I cycle to work and social events like friends , the theatre etc, and the DCs take the bus or tube (or cycle if they're really feeling energetic)

My DM is 83 and still cycles everywhere in her city, as I hope to do when I'm her age. Given the right circumstances, it can be done!

Your friend can arrange a taxi for you and her child if she doesn’t think walking with a pram is ok. 🙄

I don't drive for medical reasons. I had someone invite me somewhere and I pointed out I couldn't get there without a lot of faff. No offer to meet me halfway just got arsey for me declining the invite

Most people are reasonable though

I don't usually ask for lifts. I only ask if I really need to

I’d feel massively limited and restricted if I couldn’t drive and I live in a town with a train station and a reasonably reliable bus service! I’d never comment on someone’s lack of driving license, but I’d privately wonder why they didn’t get one, if it was an affordable option for them and they had no medical issues.

I think it’s great that your current lifestyle and choices mean you are able to forego a car!

It does severely limit your future choices though around where you live, what jobs you can take, family arrangements etc (I recognise you say you don’t ever want children).

Where I live and work, and my family arrangements mean life would be very difficult if I couldn’t drive. I’m quite envious of your current freedom from getting behind the wheel every day!

Not everyone wants to drive or can afford to drive. It’s really no-one else’ business.

I can’t drive either. I live in a rural area with good public transport. What really pisses me off is people who assume I want to scrounge lifts. I don’t. Even if they’re offered I mostly say ‘no thanks’. I’d only ask for a lift somewhere in an absolute emergency. This has happened once in five years and only because there were no taxis available and I gave the person who drove me a petrol contribution equal to the cost of a taxi.

Yet still car owners assume I’ll expect them to give me a lift.

Hilarious. She's pissed off because you can't drop off her kid.

As long as you don't ask for lifts, ignore. I don't drive either for health reasons, and I budget for trains and taxis. It's fine.

@RhaenysRocks I work in the retail industry and everyone is moving to online shopping and home delivery esp for bulky items. Also in London b&m and industrial estates are easily accessed and close to tube. And how many times does anyone need to buy bulky items. Most people pick gyms close to work or home and there’s so many everywhere easily accessible and walking distance. Driving time is wasted time really so unless it’s absolutely necessary surely anyone would want to reduce it.

I wish people would bear in mind some of the comments they make when some people can't drive for medical reasons. My husband has epilepsy, but people think nothing of making comments like "real men can drive", "you're not a proper grown up unless you can drive" etc.

Of course it's all "oh, we don't mean you" if it's pointed out to them.

Imagine if someone said "oh, it's always such a pain that we have to meet somewhere convenient for Dave's wheelchair" but people are happy to make the same statement about having to meet somewhere convenient for a non driver when both are just making allowances for disability.

I could have written this myself. I can't drive and can literally count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've asked a driver to go out of their way for me in the last 35 years. I choose to live somewhere with good public transport and the idea that this limits me is bizarre

Plus without a car, walking, carrying shopping, constantly moving. who needs a gym. 💪

Basically your life is arranged differently.

We wouldn't use a gym that was in the middle of nowhere - we get our exercise differently. I go to a class that is less than 5 mins walk away, DH cycles

We would get the B&Q item delivered

Our children do activities which are nearby, or on good public transport/cycle routes

We would find time for the CAHMS and would phone pharmacies rather than driving around them

We get loads of things delivered TBH - no "going to the shop"

In other words - I am sure your life would be very difficult without a car but if you didn't have a car, your life would be arranged very differently

Without prohibitive car insurance etc that should read!

If you live in London or big cities globally you don’t need to drive as public transport is fab and when on holiday there are always options for taxis, buses or group travel. Most people in big cities don’t drive. I grew up in a big city in Asia where I did learn to drive but never had a need for it. Then moved to London where I had even less of a need for it for the last 17 years. My friends are similar, learnt to drive at 18 but then moved to London and got out of the habit and never bought a car. We are all only refreshing our skills now at 38-40 as we start having kids and I do agree life is easier with a car - though plenty of Londoners still manage without it of course. My job did involve a lot of travel that I easily managed with train + taxi/walk. In fact I had driver colleagues who’d join me as it was more relaxing way to travel. I have hard core city friends who live in Paris who do have kids and don’t drive and don’t ever plan to. Many new developments in London are sold as car free now so families living there will never have the option to own a car. City living is amazing for how much independence and options it gives you with prohibitive car insurance, time spent charging vehicles and the petrol costs. I pay extra for housing sure, but that’s the choice to have all amenities in walking distance and access to so much.

I must admit now looking into buying a car - the push to electric is going to be a tough switch for many as long distances/cross country, regular commuting won’t be as easy. Battling for the few charge points on your street or rewiring your ground floor to accommodate your own charge point - I suspect even more city dwellers will fall back on public transport.

OP you and many people on this thread must be quite unusual in your independence, because all the non drivers I’ve ever known have constantly wanted lifts. They don’t necessarily always ask for a lift, but they’ll talk about an event or an appointment, and wonder out loud how on earth they’re going to get there, until someone offers to drive them.

I think the irritation some drivers feel relates to the fact that they know that sooner or later they’re going to be called upon to give lifts, and that the friendship is going to be based on this inequality.

Obviously many people can’t drive (for many reasons), but when people simply choose not to, because they don’t feel like it, it can feel as if they’re deliberately abdicating responsibility for an area of their lives that they expect others to pick up the slack for. And that’s why they sound irritated.