AIBU to think a big reason to birth rate is falling is because mothers are made to feel they must do more for their children than in previous times?

I'm raising kids now and I won't be doing any of that random social media stuff like Christmas eve boxes and most of my friends don't either. We do a few weeks self catering each year and the odd weekend away. No holiday club as I only work termtime but mainly local trips. It's really not radically different from my 90s childhood.

I think a lot of this thread is just people having a moan at the current generation as opposed to accepting women want less kids and have better contraception.

Yes, I work full time with young dc. I see friends midweek for drinks and dinner. We work during the day, so my husband and I have our evenings together. We have found a way that works for us I guess and I wouldn’t change a thing.

At our child's school one parent (mostly both parents) shows up then expected of the school.
Some came a bit later than 3.15 as the event was on to 8.30 pm. We left at 7 pm as both I and child was very tired and the last things were for the older children to join in. We left after the non mandatory service which was fine with her form teacher.
If you didn't show yesterday you would be one of the very few parents not doing so.
Your child would also be one of the few not bringing in a cake.

But of course great for you if you choose differently than we do supporting our child in school.

for most living creatures there is a natural inbuilt need to procreate.

I don't think that's true.

There's a natural desire to fornicate which often leads to procreation - that's why sex is pleasurable. We have managed to break that link though.

I don't see much that biology will do about that, though cultural factors might make yet make child-bearing a high-status role if breeding rates continue to plummet.

Singapore is extremely safe and many 7 year olds do walk home from school and play outside on their own but fertility rate is still below 1.

Stressful education system and work hours. I think people dont want to leave kids to their own devices anymore. They want their kids to do well in school and if half the class is tutored intensively, then the stakes become much higher.

The birth rate is low most likely for similar reasons to falling rates elsewhere - women have more choice (and its societally acceptable to choose not to have children now), finances or worries about future finances as jobs are much less stable now - a job for life is rarer, worry about the world you would bring children into, couples putting off having children until later, by which point fertility is reduced so they have less children or don't have them at all.

Yeah its a relatively safe country and children mostly go to the closest school as there's less difference between schools than in the UK.

I would also add that I think that families have generally become more separated with fewer 3 generation families in the same house/road/town/etc. which makes childcare across the generations much less likely. Even when they are near, more and more of the older generation are still working full-time.

That's a huge hole to fill with paid-for childcare.

The previous day?
I was off the same morning from work as we were expected at the school and had very little downtime before heading off to the school.
I would have prefered a day shift before a parents' evening at school but it's not pick and choose in all jobs.

Have you worked night shift in a busy hospital ward? They are so exhausting.

If you look at the countries with the highest scores in the pisa rankings, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, they have the lowest fertility rates. There is a huge tuition culture. I am from one of those countries and we had 4 exams per year when I was 6 going on 7. My mum bought me exam papers from the past 10 years (produced by the top 10 primary schools in the country) and made me complete them. Highly doubt she could do that if she had more than 2 children and tbh even 2 was a stretch for her.

I am one and done,my dh got a vasectomy when I was 6 months pregnant.

Fewer dc can lead to a cultural shift in a country where dc are seen as a pain, inconvenience eg child free cafes become popular, playgrounds don't exist in parks, maternity wards are closed so it becomes more difficult to choose to have dc.

www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-02/inside-south-korea-child-free-zones/103139230

The pill was first available in 1961, not widely, and only for married women (until 1967). The widespread change in mindset (of choice for family planning, rather than enabling women to continue having multiple children) didn't come in til the late 70's really.

Condoms (and anal sex) were used to avoid more kids. But they relied on the participation of the man, and the effectiveness of the prophylactic. Condoms were of heavier material in those days and attitudes were, shall we say, less enlightened about the relative weight of a man and woman's preferences.

Yes, many women worked in the 60s and 70s, but there wasn't the same expectation of education until 18 (leaving age rose from 15), nor of large numbers of girls going to university until they were 21. Only 5% of 18 year olds went, and IIRC the numbers were still skewed towards men.

It wasn't unusual to be pregnant at 17 or 18 (and married) then. The average age for a woman having her first child in the UK has steadily increased since the 1950s, rising from the early 20s in the 1950s to around 31 years old in the 2020s. For example, women born in 1950 were most likely to give birth in their early twenties, while those born in 1978 were having their first child around age 31.

I think in part this is driven by trying longer to find a suitable partner - something the pill has also enabled. Again, an extension of time because the woman can choose.

PPs were saying people don’t want children any more because of x, y, z - but I meant that human biology will usually supercede cultural / economic factors because ultimately and for most living creatures there is a natural inbuilt need to procreate.
Exactly re evolutionary change, that’s why I said it will take a long time, if ever.

But I would think there’s always the chance that if people continue not to have / not to want to have children that could ultimately bring about an evolutionary shift (even if light years from now!)

I agree. There's a cultural pressure to be the perfect parent now.

Easier done with 1, 2 or 0 kids.

Sounds similar to my kids upbringing. And tbh pretty much my own although my kids had more holidays

Raised 3 kids. Never did an elf, christmas eve box, valentines or easter basket. They had plenty of nice experiences and holidays, but not all the time. Summer hols they largely went to holiday clubs whilst I worked. All well adjusted adults. Not spoilt, polite and successful. Just do you, don’t get into the whole competition element. My best friend 100% does and it’s a lot of pressure.

That's been happening ages through. My paternal grandmother was one of 16 kids. Out of those 16 they produced 3 kids between them .

My dad was one of them. So I don't think that side of our family replaced that number

Omg yes.
I didn't choose a partner to be a breadwinner; I can do that myself. I chose an equal partner of greatness.

I think whereas women may have settled for a man who could earn, then tried to overlook his flaws, now we want a man who can earn his keep. And by the sounds of it, they are few and far between. As much as the 'new men' is the 90s didn't always live up to their promise, a lot did at least expect to be better than their dads.

I think your children’s generation have it right, to be honest. Much better to have a nice life and to go after what you want in life than make sacrifices and forego your dreams for the sake of having a certain number of children. Better one child whom you can afford to take travelling around the world with you, than 3 children and hardly ever having holidays and having to watch the pennies, IMO. Each to their own, of course.

Yes it’s certainly part of the reason we don’t have more kids as I feel I’m juggling extra curricular activities wildly as it is and can’t imagine trying to fit in another’s child’s.
As it is we have 3 x swimming lessons all at different times, brownies, football, dancing and netball but many in my kids classes do more than that!
Then there’s supporting them with homework and reading plus the constant visits into school.

But if someone says they have done a DAYS work yet can be at a school at 3.15 it doesn't add up

What are you still confused by @Thechaseison71?

So many of them will be at work when these events are on. Same as most schools. Baking cake then was a choice

I did bring up 3 kids and worked full time as a single parent so well aware of juggling things thanks

Exactly FLAT not HOUSE with a garden which is what most ppl want for their kids