AIBU to think a big reason to birth rate is falling is because mothers are made to feel they must do more for their children than in previous times?

Lots of women (and men) realise that their only function is not to just reproduce and if they don’t want children then they don’t have to.
women are waiting longer to have them, so limits how many they can have. I had my daughter at 37. (40 this year) I’m definitely too old for a 2nd. I would like one but I think energy wise it would be hard. We also can’t really afford a 2nd one. I enjoy giving all my time to just my daughter.

Yes the added burden of needing to work, or wanting to, as still too many men won't step up parentally or domestically, hence women having to do more I would say does contribute to the declining birth rate.

Perhaps we are over the hump now that there has been plenty of examples of the GenX/Millennials where women thought that men would be more equal in all things, and as this hasn't really played out as imagined that women coming up behind them are learning from their mistakes and choosing to have financial and relationship independence and not have the added burden of having to work just to fund a household, but also still do more than their fair share of domestic chores and child rearing.

I'm not convinced by the argument that you can choose to parent how you want because things like parenting never happen in a vacuum in any sort of society.

On a practical level there are examples like how I am not allowed to decide when I feel my children are ready to walk themselves home from school.

IMO the soaring cost of housing has a lot to do with it.

No I think because it’s too expensive to live and house a family and pay for childcare. Plus I think it’s more acceptable to say you don’t want children and there’s more to life without such a stigma

Grandparents are less likely to want to help with childcare when their children expect that they will comply with a rigid set of rules. The "village" is no longer allowed to help with childrearing because you are not permitted to tell a spoilt brat off. Modern permissive parenting raises spoilt children, why would anyone want to look after them. You increasingly see teachers, who are paid to put up with them, complaining.

Parents are now expected to support their child for life - not until they started work at 14 or 16 or 18 ( 21 for just 5%). They are also not allowed to expect anything back, not even a little gratitude from their offspring.

No one makes anyone do anything. We all parent how we want to. It doesn’t hurt children to be bored or amuse themselves sometimes.

I can see what you mean, for example that 50 years ago it seemed less common to help your child with big expenses much past the age of 18 - things that often seem expected now like helping to buy their first car (as well as the huge costs of lessons and insurance), partially funding university, helping with the deposit to buy first home etc.

My father said to me that when I got to 21 there would be no more money from them at all for any reason. I was fine with that.

I have helped none of my AC children financially with car, house deposit etc. - I don't have the money!

Going back to an earlier post about grandparents no longer being inclined to help with GC, I am grandma to 7 and have helped a great deal - and saved my AC a load of dosh by providing what child care I can - and I have enjoyed it. I have a wide circle of friends of my age and none of them do no GC care - they ALL do a LOT - every one of them. I really cannot think of one who does not, some travelling long distances to do so. Round here it is the norm that grandparents help with their GC.

I can see what you mean, for example that 50 years ago it seemed less common to help your child with big expenses much past the age of 18 - things that often seem expected now like helping to buy their first car (as well as the huge costs of lessons and insurance), partially funding university, helping with the deposit to buy first home etc. These could be tricky for many people to do at all, but especially if they had more than 1 child, with the general cost of living rises.

But to be honest I think it is a double whammy - I think another major reason for many people either being childless or only having one child is the seeming rise in fertility problems. Maybe I see it more often as a SMBC who had her only child at 41 (via fertility clinic because I didn’t find the right partner and was then too old/too poor to have any more) - but nearly everyone I know/meet seems to have had their children in their thirties or sometimes even early 40’s like me and many do seem to have struggled with either primary or secondary infertility.

Compare that to my parents generation - most of whom seem to have started their families in their early twenties and who tend to have 2, 3 (or more) children. Or my Grandparents generation who often started in their late teens and had 4, 5, 6 children etc (admittedly lack of available contraceptives would have made a difference there).

There are likely several reasons for delaying having a family - I think mothers (or even parents in general) being expected to do more for their kids is probably only one of them.

If you look up social history, you will see that men earned far more than women, and women rarely had full time jobs when they married.

When the family came along, in the 1950s-to 1970s more children were born and mothers were not expected to work full time. The men didn't always earn enough to keep a family and the mother did have to work part time to supplement the family income.

When women campaigned for equal pay, more women wanted to go out to work full time, and that increased the payload for employers. Once more women were working and getting equal pay, costs went up everywhere, including housing and by the end of the 1970s prices were rising. When the tax relief was withdrawn on mortgages, both parents needed to go to work to pay the housing costs.

Now mothers, in their wisdom, said ''blow this for a game of soldiers, I am not wearing myself out having children then working full time'' and stopped being a slave. That has reduced the birth rate, and until someone comes up with a suitable answer, if they are wise, mums will not overburden themselves.

Definitely this one. The whole "It takes ages village to raise a child" doesn't exist anymore.

People having kids later in life than before, grandparents a bit older. Boomer generation now, didn't doing much actual child raising themselves.
The grandparents helped out a lot more back then in the 70's and 80's. It was expected / assumed that they would do this. So those Boomer parents were spoiled and are more inclined to be resentful of the idea of babysitting their now, grandchildren. This doesn't go for all of them but you see it a lot more nowadays.

Then people moving away from their hometown so no childcare network available and nursery fees expensive.
I only have the one child and I'm too long in the tooth now at 46 but I always knew we wouldn't be able to have another child due to all of the above (except moving away).

And so they have. There seems to be a lot more expectations that grandparents should look after their grandchildren much more than in previous generations.

They don't need to change men's behaviour. Just rule them out. Make it attractive for women to have children without blokes. All you need is the sperm. The government could tax blokes more and give it to women who choose to parent alone. WIN WIN.

I think its money- I have 4 friends who have chosen not to have kids and their lifestyle is amazing- we on the other hand grit our teeth for uni fees and a child doing an apprenticeship on less than minimum wage. Also GP’s have to work my PiL both worked till their early 70’s so they could afford nice things. 30 or 40 years ago GPs helped out (if they lived close).

Women have always done the lion's share. My life is 💯 easier than my DGM's on both sides, born late 1920's.
Catholic ireland, 10 DC and 11 DC, husbands who worked in the UK.
Boiling pigs feet. My DGM's worked too, in cold markets or laundry work.
The men were very hands off too.

I think perhaps women have got sick of crap blokes. When I was younger you had no one to ask "what's it like having children?" Your own Mother wasn't going to tell you it was awful.
Bur now young women have the Internet, they can talk to each other and older women they don't know. The don't have to listen to relatives who have to lie to them.
Young women now understand that, if they have a child, it's just them dealing with it. And the crap bloke continues his life unfettered by children. Perhaps the government need to make it attractive for young women to breed.

I don’t think this is a factor, no.

Lack of support, other demands, financial impact, environmental concerns.

Obviously there are limiting contextual factors - but I don’t agree with you at all as parents can largely choose how they parent their DC and don’t have to follow the herd, latest parenting book etc.

For example, if you have a car you can choose to ferry DC around in it - equally they (and you) can still get on a bus or walk.

You can set your own expectations at home regarding chores.

A reason that’s come up amongst multiple people I know who have two children and would like a third, is that you can no longer fit 3 children under 10 in a normal car, even estate cars marketed at families, due to the newer car seat laws, so they’d have to get a people carrier or an SUV. They see it as an unnecessary extra cost.

I’d say that it’s the primary factor in people choosing not to have any children at all, whereas for people who already have a child, it’s secondary to the cost - but it’s still a big factor.

Parents are expected to be more actively involved with their children than ever before. It’s no longer socially acceptable for children to play outside unsupervised for hours, it’s also no longer acceptable for them to have so much screen time, so people are expected to actively parent 24/7 now.

I think we’ve got to a point where we know too much now, so are always striving for the best, and it’s just not sustainable anymore.

We know that young children in primary school benefit from having a wide variety of different experiences for their enrichment, but partly due to funding issues, parents are expected to provide more materials themselves than ever before. Things that previously would have been class activities, like making Christmas hats, are now homework activities, so the onus is on the parents to sort everything out. Then there’s world book day, the nativity, the harvest festival etc. - there’s always something, and parents are expected to take an active role in it all.

Add to that, maternity care is at an all time low. Over regulated and underfunded, like everything else. It’s all a bit of a disaster.

Why is the decision to not breed placed only at the door of women! It's not the case that all women are desperate to give up work and breed!
My partner and I both knew the desire to have kids wasnt there! Our passion in life is travelling, ok YouTube there are so many child free couples that travel long term and do not have an interest in kids!
Kids are completely unappealing to those that don't want them, it's not all about the money! People are exercising their right to choose!
There's threads on here where teachers are looking to get out of the profession because they've had nothing but hell from people's undisciplined kids since the new term started! That is something people have to think about! Someone on MN said that their kid is coming home from school in tears everyday since they went back because of how disruptive other kids are!
There's also still a lot of people with a bad attitude that mothers shouldn't work so unless a kid is wanted passionately, there's a lot of reasons to not bother.

Society has changed and it's irreversible because couple will never go back to allowing themselves to be pressured into breeding.

Also I have had lunatics online claim that previous generations that played out all day had cruel neglectful parents because they didn't keep us safely locked indoors all day! There's too many judgemental freaks about which makes kids even less desirable.

It's way it makes them feel. I don't work anymore (gave up when our second kid was 2 because of burnout) so I can easily go to everything but when we were both working it was much harder. A couple of times we missed things and DD would be the only kid in her class without someone there to support her and she was gutted. It's a village school with really high parent engagement and maybe it would be different elsewhere but if we didn't show up she would likely be the only one without someone there.

My grandmother had 5 kids and was pretty self centred and my father does not rave about his 60s childhood at all. Even though they had money it was pretty emotionally neglectful. DHs grandmother had 3 and had terrible mental health issues and messed up her kids in various ways.

I think it's SO much better that we live in a world where people who aren't really suited to parenthood don't have to do it.

Just as I think it's better we don't have 10 kids, watch half of them die and send them down a chimney. It's also in every country apart from the very poorest that women are choosing to have less kids.

Yes it's a big problem for economies but I think we have to adapt.

I think it's for many reasons but finally we're raising a generation of women who aren't being moulded in to subservient wives and mothers. And finally woman are realising there's a whole life ahead of them that doesn't involve settling down and having kids.
On top of that there's an increasing pessimism about an uncertain and unstable future. Climate change, extreme politics.... the world doesn't seem like the safe, welcoming place it used to be.
I'm not sure I'd choose to bring a child in to it if I had my time again.

I just think it's economic. Women need to earn a bigger salary than the previous part-time secondary job. It's tough to do everything and then a FT stressful job on top.