AIBU to think a big reason to birth rate is falling is because mothers are made to feel they must do more for their children than in previous times?

It’s just so expensive to have a child and work full time so just having one was a financial decision

I think that's right. Back in my mum's day, I'd probably have married a mediocre man and had 2.4 children, neither of which I wanted. I was born in the late 1960s and I just about crept into the times that gave me a choice. So, I made it and remained single. And child free 🥰

Nobody bats an eyelid these days if women choose not to have children. And so those of us who don't want to don't need to: there are plenty of other options 😚

You are right to some extent. There were less university places available, but parents didn't have to pay for fees and mandatory grants included accommodation. I think the sit-ins in the university in London helped stopped the grants eventually.

The system was different. True, many students did not go to university, but they were offered apprenticeships in FE Colleges and there were also 'TOPS' courses for older students which were full time for about 4 months or so and they were paid to study, and sat exams at the end. It could be revived?

There were more apprenticeship courses, and career officers in schools and further education colleges, many of which are now called universities. What is needed are more courses for building skills, to build more houses the government keeps promising but never delivers. Plumbers and carpenters are desperately needed in many areas.

The problem was, I think, that more and more children were attracted to university - or gave the school some prestige value if they went, so they did academic courses instead of more suitable apprenticeships. I think that was wrong, but that is not so prominent in social history as it should be, Now we have children leaving uni without jobs to go to and years of paying off the loan debt.

It was - and still is, in my view - wrong to encourage children to go to courses at universities when they would be better off in technical courses.

University being free wasn’t anything my parents even thought about during the 60s/70s, no one I knew went to University, it wasn’t even a consideration. I think now that many University courses have been shown to be a waste of money, more young people will go straight into work and apprenticeships.

Women want more out of life than to be breeding mares. And quite rightly.

And everything is really expensive. It has probably always been the case that if you wait until you can afford to have kids you never will, but now especially.

And then the state of the world/climate change etc. Do we really need to add to the overpopulated world?

Yes, all of this is spot on. Especially when I've spoken to other women who don't have kids.

Most dc now need a job & parental help.

@Thechaseison71

Again, you misunderstood. The maintenance loan is means tested based on parental income...

I hate to say it but I think I already know that there is only so much I'd want to do as a grandparent. I'd only want to do the fun things, not help bring up more children.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I'd had heavily involved grandparents for my kids and lots of freedom, respite and nights out. I'd never judge a grandparent wanting to make the most of their retirement.

They can expect all they like butnirs still not compulsory. In most cases the student can get a job on top of their loans.

I certainly didn't dole out money to uni child. They had loan and job, I did the occasional shop and collected stuff they needed for uni accommodation

They now have graduated and working so obviously didn't do them much harm

The Grandparents of today don’t want to help even if they are working less. They see that they have done their job raising their own children.

To add, this is probably because 'they have had their babies, it's your turn now' is repeated over and over again in any thread where the grandparent is doing something outrageous, like buying an expensive car seat or allowing the sacred child a cup of weak squash or something else equally beyond the pale.

No thanks!

The thing is, with certain things , society has more of a say than the parent. For example, the age a child can go to school/come home by themselves. Or area dependent, the age a child can be out by themselves or stay at home by themselves.

I am not a grandparent, but if I did become one, I would not want to look after my grandchildren.
One look at MN gives the impression at lest that I should be endlessly grateful for being allowed to give up my free time to save the parents money and I should put up, shut up and do as I am told, as I know nothing.
As I have brought up three children,I don't appreciate being patronised and 'gently explained to' that everything I am doing is wrong.

The birth rate is declining because women finally have a choice whether to have children or not. The reasons on both sides vary, but back in the old days they didn't have a choice. When I was born all forms of contraception were illegal on Ireland.

In my experience women do 90% of the mental load with raising children.
They wouldn't choose it again, despite loving their children.
They would make a different choice.
One and done is the very popular and being driven by women.
No discussion, just one and no more.
They want their professional careers and one child is just about doable.
My childless friends never regretted their choice.

Too bloody expensive! I still live in a house share! Theres no way i'm going to be in my own place terribly soon, let alone financially viable enough to have a child!
Also, and this may sound selfish but - I love my job, I've worked really bloody hard to get where I am, and I dont want to give that up for lost sleep, nappies and a serious lack of intelligent conversation for multiple years. I'm also not a great one for being clung to, and would actually have a breakdown if i had something attached to me or my boob all day. I also include the actual making of the child in that - sex is gross (just me - highly uninterested in sex, and hate the noise, and texture of anything related to mens appendeges -)

Technology has made a difference. The need to have internet access and so much more for recreation is becoming more expensive instead of cheaper.

How can families go without the computer access and TV, other technological access? It separates the wealthy, who have access to knowledge, and the poorer families who do not. I can understand why mothers would be reluctant to have children if they cannot provide these things.

All those technology giants are so wealthy if makes your eyes smart thinking about it. The costs of phones and computers, games, etc, should have come down by now, but they have not. Why not?

Money - childcare is exceptionally costly and more than one child most women give up work. Without a second income people can’t pay their mortgage, ergo one child is financially viable and safer.

Time - women have to work to survive. What jobs let you finish at 3pm? Jobs perhaps, a ‘career’ - not many do. Women are highly educated now, so they’re choosing careers.

Societal pressures - many women had children because it was expected of them. Life is no longer like this. Women realise they can choose what they want, not what is expected.

Family dynamics - grandparents aren’t as able to help as they too are working much layer and living to be much older. Often women are stuck between managing being a parent, managing a household and often elderly care - having more children isn’t manageable in this setup.

the world - the future is arguably not all roses - cost, pollution, war, economy closely collapsing in various places - people are more educated as saying “do I want to bring someone into this?”

I have helped none of my AC children financially with car, house deposit etc. - I don't have the money!

But the government now expects parents to
help with uni costs

@GiraffesAtThePark agree

Posters are comparing the present to the 1960s and they have some good points. Families were actually encouraged to have more children by having baby clinics around the country, especially in towns and new towns created after the war. There were hardly any hospitals in the 1960s so home births were usual in some areas. Mothers were given grants towards the expenses of giving birth at home!

People should take more interest in social history. There are so many clues and points that would serve us well now and which we can learn from. Now in the age of Ai we have the information at our fingertips - no pun intended.

I think another reason why women are reluctant to have more children is the burden of educating them and the fact that after they have taken out huge loans to finance university, they leave without a job and the loans to pay.

In the past there were large families who had none of those worries, because if an 18 year old was able to get into University they were given grants which they did not have to repay. There were two types of grant, mandatory and concessionary, where the local education authority made partial grants where students could not qualify for a mandatory grant.

That made an enormous difference to families, especially in the 1960s and 70s when there were more places and more jobs.

I don’t think it’s just expectations to do lots of things that weren’t done in the past like elf on the shelf etc. I think there’s an overall change in how parents are expected to be. It’s an extreme example but when I was growing up there were cases of children being murdered who had been playing in fields with other children or who wandered from their mum out shopping. Basically being away from their parent at a young age. Those parents never faced criticism. Whereas now if a child was taken or killed there’d definitely be accusations of bad parenting.

Parents dont have to parent by by popular opiniom social media, competing with 'school mums' (to use a popular mn expression) or relatives

So much of what women do or not is blamed on anyone or anything else, maybe women need to be responsible for their own decisions like men are?

Women have as many brains so maybe use them more and think for yourself?

Cost may play a role, but many women are simply choosing not to have children—it’s not just about it being “more acceptable.”

A child-free life means pursuing a great career and truly enjoying life. And when it comes to intimacy, women can find it whenever they want it.

Hardly a WIN WIN - Sperm Donor children have their own issues.

There's plenty of decent fathers out here who do their fair share. Maybe it's a you problem?