To think single mothers are judged harshly because deep down society still thinks kids need fathers more than mothers admit?

i am not sure how many single mothers are actually arguing that children do not need fathers, though?

Most women who are single mothers have been left to it, or they have carefully weighed up the negatives of being a single parent with the negatives of staying in a relationship which has some kind of serious problem.

No-one becomes a single parent for the shits and giggles. And in many, many cases mothers are facilitating contact with men who take as little financial and practical responsibility as possible, and/or have been abusive to them, precisely because they believe that children need fathers.

Think there's quite a lot to unpack here:

First off it is mainly misogyny: people like to attack women for the way they raise their children, whether its their fault or not (see the endless SAHM vs WOHM threads).

There's also a hangover from the days when single mothers were considered morally unsound (Margaret Thatcher went to war with us in the 80s). That's receded a lot but not 100% and there's a percentage of people who think single mothers are feckless benefit scroungers who can't identify a "good" man or can't say no etc.

I think some people do think that all families need a father for reasons which are part true, part cod science. I think having a genuinely good and committed father plus a mother is optimal, unfortunately many fathers are not optimal. A lot of people struggle to admit to themselves that their traditional family setup isn't as great as they would like it to be so they like to hold onto the idea that "at least the family is together". When in fact in my view a family headed by a good, strong and solvent single mother is most of the time better than one with a suboptimal father. But I agree that its ridiculous to attach blame to the mother when in the majority of cases its the father that has chosen to leave.

I think there's a more recent phenomenon as well in the workplace where men in coupled households resent single mothers for the "accommodations" they need to raise their kids (earlier leaving times/flexible working etc) because they feel they come at their expense. I've been on the receiving end of this and it's usually just that they don't like having to face the fact that women can make a decent living and run a household without a Big Swinging Breadwinner who has to have his wife at home "facilitating" his breadwinning. This is mainly just insecurity and not liking having to face that women are often quietly much more efficient at getting things done.

Human relationships are more complex and nuanced than simply ‘shopping for a product’.

I think that single mothers are more spoken about with a sort of pity than with harsh judgyness. It's not what anyone wants for their child is it?

Maybe harsh judgements for women with multiple children with multiple fathers. But I've not heard anything negative about single mothers in real life from anyone under 60. Mostly you hear about how hard they have it.

two parent with an abusive man is not better than being a single parent.

No one is saying single mothers don’t do their best, only that a two-parent family is statistically best for children. You can be sad about that, or wish it wasn’t so, but it is. As I said, there will always be outliers, but the facts are not up for debate.

How was I supposed to know he was rotten inside?

A lot of men are really low quality parents. Some women too, but most mums do their best for their kids.

I'm not sure on the "families need fathers" stuff tbh. Yes, surveys show that kids from 2 parent households do better, but the research is less clear cut when adjusted for socio-economic factors. Generally 2 parent families are better off and have more resources.

While I'm sure involved and responsible fathers do enhance their children's lives, arguably what families need, especially single parents, is more money. Give them more money and their kids will do better.

And that is not a very popular viewpoint.

I guess I am a single parent on account of being divorced. My exh doesn't provide for us financially but he is there for DS emotionally and is in his life. I don't feel judged about being a single parent and this is probably because I am educated, hold a professional job, higher rate tax payer so don't claim benefits. A few posters have pointed out the socio-economic factors and that makes a big difference.

Low-quality men are not always apparent from the outset. Some are able to live numerous lives and have different appearances for different people.

If I'm shopping for a product, there's no point in complaining about low quality merchandise in one shop if I can obtain better elsewhere, or go without. There are undoubtedly many, many women who willingly enter into relationships with obviously low quality men simply to obtain children.

That makes no sense...if society felt that kids need fathers, they would judge the fathers, not the mothers

Society holds no judgment for the fathers which is why some of them feel free to abdicate their responsibility by leaving all the parenting to the mother (or their own mother or new girlfriend or whatever).

I've seen people praising dads for not even taking care of their kids, but for still loving them...when would we ever talk about a mother that way? Oh she abandoned them and doesn't see them, but she does love them, so she's still a good mum.

Lovely to hear when you married, waited and planned children with a man for him to then leave and decide it wasn’t what he wanted (affairs included). My children are happy and healthy and I do my very best for them day in and day out. The choices that their father made, I hope will not determine the success of their life.

Agree, plus the fact that many single mothers are on benefits because they and their ex’s income isn’t enough to sustain two households.

Because too many use it as a victim status and a reason to be a drain on society for too long.

Single parents who work either PT progressing to FT or FT from the start are not judged.

I never said it was?
Presumably seeing as you were married you put thought into the pregnancy?
I'm referring to the ones who get pregnant after a ''relationship'' of 2 weeks

Yes its unfair, but there's also an element of hard biological reality. Women have much more to lose having sex with a shitty man than men have if they sex with a shitty woman. Only one sex can get pregnant.

Outcomes for children are statistically better for children from a stable, two parent family. That’s just the truth of it. There’ll always be outliers, but generally speaking children of both sexes need both of their parents, and single ones, no matter how well-meaning, can’t substitute for that.

I was married and in a stable relationship. He left
me for someone else. How is that my fault?

Precisely. I judge the absent father harshly , ^particularly* if he is a serial offender , as they so often seem to be. I don't judge the women who are left to pick up the pieces and the entirety bulk of parenting, rather than waltzing back into irresponsible single life...

I'm a single mother & I agree with this. I know my family set up isn't the ideal for my children and I agree that fathers are really important, but I have to do the best with what I have (thanks ex-DH!).

I think its much more about socio-economic status than anything else. Single parent households are single income households and single income households are inevitably much more likely to be on benefits, in social housing etc. And our society really looks down on that demography. Also women from lower socio-economic backgrounds are more likely to become single parents. And the multiple kids by multiple completely useless 'fathers' thing does happen.

Also mothers and motherhood generally is seen as low status. Brits very much define themselves and each other by career, more so than other countries IME.

Okay, thinking more on it...

There have been lots of threads in which women have been asked to account for why they had children with men who made poor partners prior to conception. I always think it's a vicious question that achieves nothing but I think that it does reveal something of the mindset of the few who do judge women more than men.

There's an expectation here that women should make a calculated decision about the suitability of their children's parent in a way that isn't asked of men. That might be framed as misogyny but this higher standard that people expect of women speaks of a poor regard of men.

Maybe because it's easy to see and judge a woman with a child and harder to notice who is a deadbeat dad? If I knew a dad like that I'd judge, but maybe they are harder to spot in the wild all unencumbered without all the bags, toys, spare plasters and water bottles dangling off of them.