To be utterly despondent about AI

We have all the technology we need now to make the world a Utopia, but instead we're using it to kill each other. I can't see this changing.

It could be a golden age of leisure, cultural & sporting pursuits.

China's doing a pretty good job of automating goods delivery. I think all that will remain is manual care work.

I assume this is satire? No one is that naive.

It's all a fascinating and pretty terrifying conundrum isn't it? And it's easy to see how it leads people down all sorts on conspiracy theory rabbit holes.

Climate change for example. It's perfectly clear to see that mass industrialisation and modern life in general will have environmental impact that should be considered and addressed. But records also show that the climate seems to go through natural cycles - in both the Elizabeth's and Victorian eras skating and Winter Fairs happened on the Thames for example. Not so much now .... how these issues intersect requires careful study as to how we move forward.

However, some chump with pound signs in his eyes and a good way of spinning an idea will get into bed with politicians and convince them that X is the answer and everything should be funnelled into that thing, with pillow talk including the mutual financial benefits. And then, as the LED thing demonstrates, we have the fallout, which may or may not have been predictable.

When even the founders of AI are questioning its growth and capitalist driven application without mitigation or concern, you'd think people might stop and think. But the fun bits always overshadow the not so great side effects until something becomes a crisis.

Our only hope may well be 'gatekeeper' AI, to either control or limit damage from the other stuff. But who would control that?

We're f*cked.

It's the "LED problem" but on much bigger scale.

The "LED problem" refers to the law of unintended consequences. Policy makers insisted that we all have LED headlights in our cars, they said it was for our safety because they were brighter and would also be cheaper because we would no longer need to buy bulbs.

Then the policy makers insisted that we all drove an EV. They said it was for our own good, and that we would save the planet at the same time. They showed us what a carbon footprint was to make sure we understood.

What they didn't appreciate, was the effect that combining those two things together would have.

So, your massively expensive, save the planet, new EV, now has LED headlights. Those headlights won't last anywhere as long as your EV. So all the environmental benefits of driving an EV will be wiped out when the car is written off prematurely because those disproportionately expensive headlights fail.

Car makers have only just acknowledged that there is a manufactured crisis coming around 2030 when the vast majority of EVs on the road will have to be scrapped because of a headlight. They have acknowledged also that EV models are being sold in such small numbers that there won't be any viable stock of parts or second hand units available. This is a massive crisis for the Auto industry and one government doesn't want to admit to.

So we have to make sure that decisions we make now, aren't going to cause further more serious problems down the line.

Studying STEM might just add to the problem of mass unemployment. Practical skills may be the way forward in a world where your phone is more intelligent than you are.

I don't think you appreciate what we're on the threshold of.

Once it's intelligent enough we will lose all control of it. When it is autonomous, anything could happen, including things we cannot foresee. Just switch it off? Not when it has distributed itself throughout the intenet.

Before then, it will be used by 'bad actors' for the acquisition of (more) wealth, power, and control. Autonomous weapons? Coming soon enough, and you can bet that they're at least under active consideration now.

Fake news and opinion manipulation are bad enough now - what do you think it will be like once fake stuff is indistinguishable from the real?

We're already relinquishing control to systems that we do not understand.

This will not end well.

Bill Gates and Elon musk don’t say that washing machines will take over 80% of human jobs and in Gates own words we will decide what jobs. Musks own words it’s like summoning the demon. It’s not like the technocrats don’t tell you

I am an author and while I'm not out of work yet, the tide is coming in of AI generated content. I'd urge people to choose books that are written by actual PEOPLE, not just to keep authors in work and earning but because AI does not understand what it is to be human, and books should help you understand the nature of humanity.

AI can go through the motions, but it can't UNDERSTAND love, grief, loss, pain, suffering, disappointment. So it might parrot the words but it won't help you through situations because it will all be superficial - words taken from other books and regurgitated but without meaning and the understanding of what it is to actually feel.

@MistressoftheDarkSide - I’m thinking along the same lines…

The devil finds work for idle hands and if we have vast swathes of people - young men in particular - with no prospects then I can imagine an explosion in crime/gang warfare etc.

Posters saying “Study STEM!” - all well and good, but these jobs will also decline. Frankly ultimately all that will be left is goods delivery and healthcare.

It's not the same at all. Washing machines etc are controlled by us, on an individual level. Even the programmable and app controlled ones need us to tell them what to do and give them "permission" to do it. AI does not. Nobody is ever going to use (or be able to use) a washing machine against you, in a way that will cause you harm, but it's entirely possible that AI could be used in a detrimental way.

I think this is the thing. Until we come up against a direct negative impact of AI on our ability to run our lives, or have our choices or plans scuppered by it, it's easy to think it's something parallel to us, not that we are being gradually immersed in it whether we like it or not.

And I can't help thinking about our reliance on technology in general, and how all it would take is a prolonged power outage for everything to collapse. Which places us in an extremely vulnerable position, especially if all education boils down to "there's an app for that" and practical skills are lost. There seems to be little scope for balance given the way society is structured. Food production for example - bit tricky to be self sufficient with a window box in a high rise, or even to keep the suggested 3 days of supplies at hand if you live in a shoe box on limited income.

And then my dark little mind wanders to the culling of the herd....

More tea required and a dose of optimism?

Exactly.

As ai said. Those "new" jobs will also be taken over by A.I.

The machine learning will always increase in speed and ability. We don't.

So that "new" job will already be obsolete by the time you have gotten your first pay check.

Where can I read the transcript please?

This isn't evolution so much as revolution.

Not exactly 'creative' but yesterday I was chatting with someone who worked in IT for a major bank. He said that they've basically stopped taking on entry level workers in his area, because all their roles are being done by AI. So the jobs that graduates would take to allow them to get a foothold and work their way up in their chosen field are now disappearing. Soon, the more senior jobs will go too.

Tech evolves. Always has. Shan’t get exercised until robot gangs are prowling the streets picking of humans.

I was in a bookshop recently looking for a children's book for my niece. I noticed that some of the books advertised that they were 'written by a human' rather than AI. I thought this was sad. We've always thought of creativity as something uniquely human and therefore immune to technological advances. That no longer seems to be the case, which begs the question, what really will be left to humans to do? You often hear people saying that 'other jobs' will come along to replace the ones lost, as they did in previous 'revolutions' but I simply cannot see where these jobs are going to come from.

A.I will change our society. And this change will happen remarkably quickly. We won't be able to make the necessary societal changes fast enough to adapt.

Most people don't have a clue about the magnitude of the coming disruption. And I'm not being overly dramatic or pessimistic. The people who say that new jobs will be created, and liken the changes to the industrial or agricultural revolution, are mistaken. Logically, if A.I can take over your job, then it can also take over the "new" job that was created by your redundancy. It's an ever decreasing circle.

A.I gets better with each generation, we don't. A.i gets faster and more efficient with each generation, we don't.

Within five years, A.I video will be literally indistinguishable from real footage. This will have massive implications, because we won't know what's real anymore. News articles will no longer have any merit. Events were once filmed to provide proof they happened, by 2030, there will be no proof.

One solution being talked about on the forums is a "Super German". This refers to a take on the current German laws concerning filming in public and data protection. Basically, in Germany it's an offence to film someone in public or private without their explicit consent. So you can't film an argument with a restauraunt server and post it online. And you can only film public servants if it's in relation to their work. So it's an offence to film someone being arrested if you don't have their explicit concent. And you can't walk up to police and film them without reasonable cause as that would also be an offence. I've simplified the laws for illustration, but you get the idea.

We will probably need some sort of regulation here. So that only "official" unedited, non A.I generated footage can be broadcast or shared online.

But the coming changes are going to be breathtaking. And we, as a society, aren't ready for any of it.

I’m with you OP. Creative jobs are disappearing and even mumsnet is rife with AI generated threads. Fake images and videos are everywhere. I doubt that the wealthy will be significantly protected for long.

The other point is that if all creative endeavour is being fed into the big machine, teaching it to be creative by itself, we will become obsolete. We will be reduced to button pushers and programmers and monitors. And when that industry is saturated, we'll see the wages for it diminish too. It really does feel like a race to the bottom, and devotees of AI seem really unwilling to address the fact that our current economic model won't be able to adapt to the societal implications because it's all moving too quickly.

It's very much akin to "manifestation" bollocks - just think positively, it will all be fine, and if it isn't it's your own fault because you aren't "thinking" correctly.

@MistressoftheDarkSide
Absolutely. Well put.

What gets me is the pressure to adapt by embracing all the new technology and learning to use it when the reason creative generally go into the field is because of it's tactile and innovative facets that are real and not just achieved by the twitch of a mouse or the press of a few keys.

And yes, one can be creative in one's brain, but if everything else about the creative process is synthesised through technology, the knock on effect is huge.

Art and craft materials could become rare and expensive, and those without recourse to technology will be stuck, although one could argue that it might lead people to be more innovative to plug the gap as necessity is often the mother of invention, and creative souls will feed that need somehow.

Does anyone else find themselves going round in circles with it all yet still thinking that no good can come of this? Even when I try to think positively and rationally my gut instinct is noping away from AI like I just saw a tiger through the trees and even though it's purring, tickling it's chin is not a good idea....😂