To be oblivious to the issue people have with JKR? I thought she was a feminist. What have I missed?

I understand from your post that you are very defensive of people who I will refer to as ‘genuine trans people’ - the ones that just want to be left alone etc. Fair enough. But consider that the people you should be directing your anger at are the vocal minority that make the entire trans community look bad to some people.

Yes he did! That’s why we need people like JKRowling to say perfectly sensible things so that others can be less afraid to express their views too, hopefully without losing their jobs, going forward. Although teachers profession has still a long way to go to be fair - Kevin Lister case is still ongoing, and many other teachers have risked and sometimes lost their jobs for expressing a perfectly sensible opinion whilst third party providers continue to make money off our kids by ‘teaching’ them about a multitude of genders behind parents backs.

1 - You're asking that women to stop having negative opinions about trans people. If this thread was nothing but cooing about how stunning and brave they all are, you'd welcome it with open arms.
2 - You're asking that women stop deconstructing the trans narrative. Again, if opinion and discussion was solely positive - you wouldnt be making these demands.
3 - You're asking that women stop using and enforcing words related to them as a sex class, because when using those words, it becomes all too clear that trans identified males are not women.
4 - You're asking that women accede to the trans narrative, and play along with the pretence that they are whatever and whoever they say they are - despite significant evidence to the contrary.

You are closing your argument with the falsehood that this will have no impact on womens lives. Oh but it will, and you know it.

a) Women and girls will not be able to undress or use facilities that ensure their dignity and privacy without males.
b) Women will not be able to access things like rape crisis centres, without males.
c) Women will not be able to request specifically female care or support.
e) Vulnerable women will be housed in prison estates with males.
f) Women will be accommodated on hospital wards etc with males.
g) Same sex attracted females will be forced to include males both socially and sexually, or risk their own exclusion from groups and societies designed to support same sex attracted females.
h) the very concept of women only and lesbian only will be utterly erased so that males can have their identities centred and validated.

Women have said no. And they meant it.
Pleading at them to ignore fucking everything that keeps them safe is not going to achieve your desired result.

What WOULD have "no impact on my life whatsoever" would be trans identified males being accommodated and validated by other males, in male spaces.
^^

The risk of being raped is one of the reasons why women have single sex spaces though.

And if you make women's single sex spaces inclusive of trans women - any trans women - you are also making them inclusive of any man, even rapists, irrespective of whether they claim to identify as trans or not.

Because there is actually no way of distinguishing between a male person who really does have a womanly identity, and a male person who doesn't.

There are also, of course, trans people who very much are harassing women. "Rose" the male nurse and Dr Beth Upton, who both harassed their female colleagues in what was supposed to be a single sex environment at work, and the likes of the fragrant India Willoughby, who harasses JK Rowling and other women in plain sight every day on Twitter.

I’m glad you’ve moved away from heterogeneity. Earlier you were saying that ALL transpeople want to be left alone.
I agree. Fucked up individuals exist everywhere. and I have never said that ALL transpeople are like this (I even said in my earlier thread that I believe it’s a vocal minority)

Now - here is the question… how can we tell by looking at a trans person if they are fucked up or not? How do we know which ones are just going to use our changing rooms as part of them ‘getting on with their business’ and which ones are in there for nefarious reasons?
I will tell you how - when it’s already too late to do anything about it.

Yes well there are fucked up individuals all over the world of all types. Some trans people are criminals, some cis people are criminals, it says nothing about this category of person as a whole group.

The majority of trans people are ordinary humans who simply want to get on with life as they are. That’s it.

Your first sentence is patently untrue. SOME trans people absolutely are. SOME trans people have been harassing a bunny sanctuary for crying out loud!

So now all you’re asking me to do is address someone with respect? I already do that anyway. So we are good? Because that is the only thing I am prepared to do.
You haven’t replied to any of my other points though.

Some of them are raping women, @Lostcat.

Trans people aren't harassing women. This is transphobia. Trans people are simply asking to be accepted and included in society like anyone else, if you chose to take offence at their person, what can they do? It's like their very being is a weapon in your mind. This is transphobia.

You can use whatever definitions of things you like, as long as when you address someone else's person, you do so with respect. That's it. It's a very simple principle.

Yep, you are definitely taking the piss.

Then do it. You don't need to have an opinion about who trans people are. You really don't. just leave them alone

But you’re allowed to have an opinion on who trans people are?

I'll leave them alone when they leave women alone to occupy our single sex spaces in peace, without being forced to budge up for male people.

Deal?

And yet, this is another dishonest and emotionally laden appeal.

But, it has one grain of honesty.

‘virtually’. It seems we have now past the point where we were abusively told there was ‘no’ impact to us.

But alas, this poster makes a very clearly prejudiced stance that women are not negatively impacted directly. They don't know this at all, they have just assumed to then post this shaming post. And yet many of us are just by our own interactions within society.

I'd love to leave them alone and never pay one more second of attention to them.

Then do it. You don't need to have an opinion about who trans people are. You really don't. just leave them alone.

The 'female only lesbian march' at the weekend is an anti-trans political protest/ demonstration. Like a march for palestine or such - of course there will be people protesting it.

Anyone who wants to have a private picnic should of course be able to do so without disturbance.

Also, may I ask the same of some trans people towards women? Surely that’s a fair exchange?
Or are they allowed to force me to agree with their definitions? Can I request that they just let me get on with my business, too? Or do your concessions only apply to transpeople?

Stop trying to force everyone to agree with your definition of particular words.

Brought to you, without a trace of irony, by the same people who are trying to force us to accept their definition of the word "woman", as "anyone who says they are a woman", and who want to stop us from having a word for "female people" because it upsets male people who want to be included in the definition of "woman".

It's of virtually no cost to you whatsoever to accept and accommodate trans people

Wrong.
Accept them fine no problems.
Accommodate them.....in what way?
Because males in female spaces very much comes at a cost for women and girls.

1. you cannot ask other people to not have opinions. You’re allowed yours, we are allowed ours
2. you cannot ask people to stop talking about trans people. You’re allowed to talk about it, so are we
3. I would never force someone to agree with me. I’d ask you to kindly do the same
4. I already would address them in the manner in which they prefer. What ‘business’ do I need to let them get on with? Putting out their bins? Going for a coffee? Calling for TERFs to die?

“This is your failure to exercise imagination and judgement to understand a person who is different from you”

Seriously. Thanks for this.

If a law and policy requires imagination to support, it is abjectively unfit for purpose. That you finally recognise that imagination is required is important.

Trans people are already included everywhere in society.

They are included in all mixed sex environments, and where single sex environments exist, they have a biological sex, just like everyone else.

Male spaces are inclusive of trans women and female spaces are inclusive of trans men.

Demanding to be included in spaces for members of the opposite sex does put a burden on the rest of society, whether you acknowledge that or not.

Disabled people need accessible spaces because they cannot access regular spaces. The same is not true of trans people.

I'd love to leave them alone and never pay one more second of attention to them.

Maybe direct your 'leave them alone' at the men that will be protesting the female only lesbian march and picnic that is being planned at the weekend?

Oh cool!

So we can have our single sex rape crisis services, domestic abuse refuges, sporting categories, female prison estate Etc back with no fuss! Great!

You do wonder what all the campaigning for self id and the protests against the Supreme Court judgement were about though if it's only about addressing people as they want to be addressed.

Weird...

You, lostcat, have never yet provided the evidence to support your claim that what is the commonality between all people with a transgender identity is more than philosophical belief. You have attempted to explain this over many threads now and nothing you post provides any neurological or biological markers that are conclusive or common. And you also tell us you have qualifications in this area, if I remember correctly.

It is not me ‘diminishing’ their belief or their identity. It is me understanding what their identity involves. And it is not prejudice to come to this understanding even though you have numerous times name called me and others for having a different understanding to you.

“This is your failure to exercise imagination and judgement to understand a person who is different from you”

Thank you for admitting that it requires imagination to come to your own view point.

”You can chose to accommodate them, or you can chose to diminish, exclude, discriminate, cause harm.”

I and the majority of the UK population agree with the current legislation under the EA2010. That has actually always been the basis of my personal view about this, even before the Supreme Court clarified the law.

Can I suggest you reduce the hyperbole in your posts because they really do contain misinformation and are over emotionally manipulative without addressing the issues you want to address?

All you personally need to do is:

Stop having opinions about trans people.

Stop talking about trans people.

Stop trying to force everyone to agree with your definition of particular words.

If you ever come across a trans person in the wild address them as they ask to be addressed (e.g. use their name) and let them get along with their business as you do with everyone else.

This is all you need to do.

This will have virtually no impact on your life whatsoever.

Define ‘accept and accommodate’
What do you think we should do to ‘accept and accommodate’
You must have a line that you think it would be unfair for a trans person to cross? So where is your line?